39. Managing your team through change as a CFO - with Robert Bendetti

39. Managing your team through change as a CFO - with Robert Bendetti

Hannah Munro: 0:48 

So, hello everybody and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. As usual I am your host Hannah Munro and with me today is Robert Spendetti. So, Robert is Chief Financial Officer of Lifecycle Engineering and he's also the President and Founder of the Global CFO Council. So, welcome Robert, it's awesome to have you on the show. 

Robert Bendetti: 1:08 

Well, good morning for me, at least, here in the States. And thank you for having me on the podcast. I enjoyed listening to some of your podcasts and I'm excited to be here. 

Hannah Munro: 1:19 

No, it's brilliant to have you on the show, particularly because obviously you come at it from a couple of different angles, which I'm very excited to talk to you about today. So, tell us a little bit about your history, how you ended up as a CFO in your current role, and also a bit about the Global Council. What are you doing there? 

Robert Bendetti: 1:40 

Well, I'm going to go way back, Hannah, because I think it's interesting is that I started off as a communications major in college and really accounting or finance was far away from my mind. But at the end of my freshman year where I went to college, you meet with a counsellor, and you talk about what you want to be when you grow up. And I said, staff writer at a newspaper. And Hannah, you may be too young, but there's this thing where they print. They used to print words on paper and send it to your house. That used to be a big thing. And I wanted to do that. But I found out at that time that they made $18,000 a year as a staff writer at a newspaper. And I thought, I'm making that waiting tables. I really don't want to go to college for four years to make $18,000. What other options are there? And there was a book with salaries. And at the front of the book was a bunch of business school stuff. And I said, stick me in the business school. I'll figure it out. And I liked finance and accounting classes. Everybody else seemed to think they were either weird or boring or the rules were stupid. And I thought, well, it's just rules. If you memorize the rules, then it's just debits and credits. And so, undergrad in finance. And then I got an MBA. I got a master's degree in accounting and financial management because I wanted to sit for the CPA exam. So, I did that, and I passed. Thank God. I think I peeked because I don't think I could pass the CPA exam again. So, that is something I will never, I think y'all call it chartered accountants, but I will never let that license lap because I never want to take that test again. And so, I've always been in corporate finance. I never did the like the audit or tax route. I've always been in corporate finance. But I think the best thing about an accounting and finance degree is that it's completely transferable to industry. And so, that corporate finance from, say, a manager to director to VP to CFO, it's been in hospitality, food and beverage, aerospace, transportation, textiles. And now I work for a professional service for So, I think it's an awesome degree. And if you are thinking about being a bean counter, I say go for it. 

Hannah Munro: 3:52 

I love that terminology. And we have an interesting phrase here over the UK about when we learn to drive. So, you learn to pass your test and then you actually learn to drive. And I think sometimes that could be true with the accounting side of things as well. You learn what you need to do to pass your test, then you go into the big wild world, and you learn actually what it is like managing finances and taking things forward. But yeah, the term bean counter is an interesting one, isn't it? Because there's a lot of talk at the moment about how the CF role is shifting and things are changing. Are you seeing that change in what you're doing? 

Robert Bendetti: 4:29 

Oh, definitely. And I say it in jest and I'm sure I'm going to get some emails because people hate that term. They think it's insulting, but I'm trying to embrace it and take over that term. And that's another great thing about being the CFO or VP or controller is that at most companies now that at I would say except for the very, very large companies. At the very, very large companies, you get siloed with just accounting and finance. But at sort of the small, large and the mid-market and small firms, as the CFO, you're over not only accounting and finance, but you're going to be over contracts and purchasing, sometimes human resources, IT services. At this current company that I work at, Lifecycle Engineering, at times I've gotten to partner with and support the marketing and the sales operations teams. So, that's really awesome to have that sort of breadth. And to your point, strategic focus, more focused on customer facing roles, value added roles than maybe historical number generation of how last month went. 

Hannah Munro: 5:36 

Absolutely, because I don't know about you, but for me, it's the putting together of the technology is really interesting, but it's actually the outcomes that it drives and the shift that you see, I guess, in the roles that you're playing as well are the most interesting part of the transformation piece. 

Robert Bendetti: 5:56 

I'd say it's definitely equal if I'm being honest. I'm embarrassed to say I really love collections and reconciling credit cards. I don't get to do that anymore. I haven't been able to do that in about 10 years, but because it's not my job anymore, unfortunately, you know, and you got to let other team members do their job. But I actually really like, and if I wasn't careful, I would get stuck in my office all the time. But Hannah, to your point, it’s more important because I'm being paid to be the CFO to think about how I can equip the team members with the best processes, the best new team members, the new technology to execute their job. And that's what I'm getting paid to do. 

Hannah Munro: 6:42 

And I think that's an interesting perspective, isn't it? And that your awareness, I guess, and your view on what that CFO role does, as much as you'd love to spend your time. And I'm going to be honest, Robert, I've never had anyone tell me they love reconciling credit cards. So, you are definitely a first there. But that's, you know, it is that shift, isn't it? About being able to step away. And what was the thing about delegation? Did you find it easy to delegate those roles? Or was it more about you just, you enjoyed doing it, so, you didn't want to let it go? 

Robert Bendetti: 7:12 

I think what it is, is you just find success in something. So, you lean towards that. And I found that I'm really uncommonly good at collections. And so, and that's really important at a small or midsize firm. Cash is king and you need cash to make payroll. And I just found that a lot of people don't like that. And I just made like a game of it and got the people involved, not that it's something bad or negative that it's, hey, it's a game and we got a number to hit. And I just found it really fun. So, that's good. The bad thing is, as I grew at larger and larger companies or at companies where it wasn't an issue, I found myself, wow, I'm spending a lot of time with the collections team because I like that. And I'm comfortable with it and not enough time with like the sales department and human resources and, um, other strategic initiatives. And I just, I realized I was sort of leaning on a crutch and I needed to kick that crutch away. 

Hannah Munro: 8:13 

And, and again, that's a, again, a really interesting point about you, your self-reflection and your ability to sort of, I guess, self-analyze and how do you assess your performance as a CFO? What is it that you look at in terms of your own performance and figure out, you know, where you need to focus and where you need to drive next? 

Robert Bendetti: 8:32 

Yeah, probably two things. You know, the one is, is the, team so, I got a team of folks that I work with and are is the team they understand the mission did they help develop the mission and so, do their departments have goals and are they working towards those goals and are there some roadblocks that I can kick down for them so, that's probably number one is just supporting the team you know I got I got an awesome group of people that I work with and if I don't show up for a couple of weeks everything's still going to get done And I think that's pretty awesome. I'm lucky to have that. And on the other side, and this is the harder side, because sometimes, you know, folks in operations and sales in the companies that you work with, some of them are awesome and then some of them are not so, awesome. But you got to support them all. And you got to be that embedded finance person, even if you don't think they're right. They're your internal customer. And so, you got to kind of try to shape them, nudge them, help them be their friend. And that's the other part of the job is being that internal consultant and walking alongside them and helping them achieve their goals, their operational sales goals. Because there's no beans to count if somebody isn't making something or selling something. So, I'd really like to help them do it and more of it. 

Hannah Munro: 9:53 

Absolutely. And that's so, literally the last podcast we had out this week was all about finance business partnering. And, you know, it's a challenging skill, isn't it, in terms of actually both building out your team members and also as yourself going into that space. that sort of like you trusted consultants and those relationships. And like you say, sometimes the perception of finance isn't always as you would like it to be when you first come into a role. So, talk to me about how you approach that, that perception of finance. What do you do to change it or to deliver on it? 

Robert Bendetti: 10:29 

Maybe two parts. There's a little part of it that I really like because I do think there are There is a part of being the CFO that you're sort of the adult in the room and everyone else is just sort of playing and, ah, you know, we're not going to make any profit on this one, but we'll make it up in volume. Or do people really have to pay us? Can't we just give them net never payment terms? Or you just, you know, in 80% of the time, people are super smart and making the right decision. But there's, you know, once a week, somebody says or does something nuts. And it is... important to be the adult in the room and maybe not everybody's best friend. So, that's one thing, but that doesn't mean you should be anybody's enemy. So, you got to learn to, and I'm working on this. This is a little journey that I'm on is a try to establish a rapport when somebody went. So, when you do say no or ask questions or push back that they receive it in a positive ish way. So, that people side, of business is important and probably more important than I realized early on. So, it's been a little bit of a personal journey, Hannah, and something that I'm working on. 

Hannah Munro: 11:41 

Awesome. So, tell me a bit about your journey in terms of what you've seen in terms of, like you say, the people side of finance, because we don't talk about that. We talk a lot about the numbers. We talk a lot about the data. But tell me about your perspective on the people side of finance. 

Unknown: 11:57 

Yeah. 

Robert Bendetti: 11:58 

Yeah, there's one part of it that I noticed is early on in one of my first jobs out of college, I was tasked with implementing a new project. And I thought that all I needed to do was identify every task that needed to be done in order of those tasks and then who was going to do each task. And then if something else needed to be done or if that person needed a resource to do the task, if I just mapped it all out, it'd get done. And I realized it didn't really happen. And there was another part of it. There was the people side of change. And then that also applies not only to change projects, change management, new implementation, but that's just everyday life is that just because you have a job description or maybe you talk to somebody or they even said, this is the thing I'm supposed to do, doesn't mean that they're actually going to do it. And there might be something personal going on with that person that might have other priorities. You might not remember the 10 other things you gave them to do. And so, I just think that's something that was not an initial learning out of college. I had the debits and credits down. I was great at finance, but that I got to work with people and with people and not through them. And so, I think that was just an improvement based on a project, implementing a new project. But I think it applies to every part of my job. 

Hannah Munro: 13:25 

Absolutely. And it always amazes me about how much we focus. And even as consultants, you know, we focus, we're told to focus a lot on the technical skills. And actually, when I'm training new team members, I focus, you know, they can learn technical, but actually it's the soft skills, I think, that really add the value during a transformation project. So, yeah. What's your view on how you can support people through that change and that transformation journey? 

Robert Bendetti: 13:54 

Yeah, a couple of things that come to mind. One is that involve them early on in whatever the solution is, especially the people that are either impacted or have worked sort of in the problem the most. So, don't walk in with a solution like, hey, here's what y'all are going to do. for the next two years. Oh, and I have a pretty Gantt chart and you're the red line. That's not, you know, don't tell anybody they're the critical path. I think that, so, you start early. So, a problem is I've been identified. We'll then get people that are involved in the process identifying what the solution is. So, you get that early buy-in and those folks are going to have the best ideas. They're walking around dealing with the problem every day. And so, that's probably number one. And then number two is when you expand that group, so, you got stakeholders on the ground, you got mid-management, executive management, you got a champion, you got all that. And then you start spreading it out and trying to get everybody in the organization involved. I like to start with the what's in it for them. So, it's like tune into station WIFM. I don't know if you guys have the same radio station nomenclature in the UK, but you got to... lead with what is in it for the person if they are involved in this change management project or accept this change management project. And then a final note that I like to throw out there, this was a lesson I learned later, is that there's always a few people that aren't going to want to change no matter what. You tried to get them involved, you tried to sell them on what's in it for them, and then they still think, nope. And I have some bifurcation for that group. One is that you can't change everybody and don't spend 80% of your time talking with like 20% of the people, especially the loud people who think you're right. So, that's don't spend 80% of the time on 20% of the group. But keep an ear out for somebody who's complaining that has a really good point. Like not everybody who claims and disagrees with you is an idiot. Like actually they might be super smart, and they were just on vacation or maternity leave or something when you were identifying the solution and you were seeking what's in it for them. They might've just popped back into the office and they're working again and they're like, we're doing what? And they might have a really, really good point. And so, those are some key things that I've learned. People side of change. And if anybody wants some additional learning, I think ProSci, change management does a great job. And as I love Lean and Six Sigma and Greenbelt and love those projects, I think a perfect complement to that, the people side of change is ProSci. 

Hannah Munro: 16:51 

Yeah, that's a really, to be fair, I'll pick that one up. I'm a massive fan of Cotter's and the work that he's done, especially his recent model around change I find really interesting. So, rather than being linear, it's circular, which I really like. And just going back to your point, I think that was a really interesting one around the 80 to 20 mix. So, with those, that's 20% of people that are causing challenges. How do you approach it? 

Robert Bendetti: 17:18 

Well, I think, One, I try to be really visible. So, there was a period where I never even heard the 20% that thought my idea was dumb or that the project I was working on was dumb because I wasn't around. I was just in my office updating the Gantt chart. And I was emailing the people who were in charge. And then I was updating my spreadsheet and notes. And then I would send them out. And I just thought everything was going fantastic because I wasn't walking around. So, I'd say that that's really important is to be visible. If you are implementing a new software system or you are implementing a new process or you are trying to initiate a return-to-work policy for coming out of this pandemic, I think you need to be really visible. And so, then you will engage with the 20% of the people who think your idea is terrible. And when you do engage, be super polite. Keep it. Lean in with an ear towards this might be the one person who's super smart. But if they're not and this their complaint is just ridiculous, still engage. Thank them. Appreciate the feedback. But you just can't dwell on it, or you'll just never move forward. 

Hannah Munro: 18:36 

Absolutely. And I think that's always, I guess the trick is to know whether it's the, like you say, the one smart person in the room that's thought of something that you may not have or figuring out pretty quick if what they're saying is a true challenge and won't be addressed as part of the project. 

Robert Bendetti: 18:53 

Well, you do your best. I'm certainly not perfect. Everything I'm saying, I feel like I'm talking to myself. I'm lecturing myself. Hope I don't come off as preachy because I'm trying to try to have myself hear these things and do these things. So, you just do your best. And then the other thing is, again, I led with, you're not doing this by yourself. It's a team, a change management team. Like maybe you're the champion or maybe you're a leader of the change management project, but there's a team. And so, you bring things back to the team and you might have a blind spot, but there's another team member who is perked, is brought, oh, that's interesting. Robert, you might've missed something or... Another team member is visible and they're out and about and maybe they're more approachable than Robert Bendetti. And so, they hear things Robert Bendetti doesn't. So, I think that team is really important to help in that process that you catch the right feedback and let some of the other stuff just go. 

Hannah Munro: 19:52 

Yeah, no, that's it. It's the filter element, isn't it? How do you catch the things that are important and let the other pieces go? So, when you think about, because obviously you've done quite a few different roles, and we'll get onto your work with the Global Council as well at some point during this podcast. So, I do think we could be sitting here chatting for hours, to be very honest. But when you look back on sort of your transformation projects, what are the ones that stuck out in your memory? What are the ones either that perhaps you don't even want to admit to? the ones that went really well, what was it about those projects that was interesting or challenging? 

Robert Bendetti: 20:30 

Well, I think, and this is interesting because I think you work in this space, but I think the hardest are the software implementations. I have seen those go so, bad, so, fast. I have seen more CFOs get fired over software implementations than anything. And there's a particular... software package that has nothing to do with you or at all that I will not say under penalty of death that if somebody, if a CFO tells me, oh, hey, you know, strategic goal next year is I'm going to implement such and such. I'm just like, okay. All right. Good luck with that. You know, you might want to start networking now. Update LinkedIn page now. Do you want me to keep an eye out for new roles for you? Yeah, I think so, I personally have really struggled over the past 25 years implementing software packages of all types. I'm not just talking about, you know, people think I'm just speaking about financial software, but it's everything. there's a software package behind everything. And that is a real challenge because there's so, many decisions to make. Is it on-premises? Is it in the cloud? How quickly will you update in your version control? Are you just upgrading to the newest version? Are you completely switching packages? When you switch packages, are you running things in parallel? Or do you have a hard stop? What happens to the history? It's a really big deal. And so, some of those have gone well. A couple of them that I had no involvement in almost other than being the champion went great. And I wish I could take credit for those, but I can't. Those were more recent. So, I'm a more senior position. So, instead of the person in charge, I'm the champion, you know, who cut the check and knock down roadblocks. But I didn't do the heavy lifting. So, I'd start with that is that if you're implementing a software package, then you need to be on the leading edge of best practices and change management. And that if it needs to be a part of the plan from the beginning that who's handling the process side and the people side of that change management, because it's a big lift. So, that'd be one thing. And then I think there's a big change management piece to mergers and acquisition. And I think it's often under looked in the due diligence list. You're looking at the balance sheet, you're looking at the P&L, you're looking at receivables and the customer list. And you might look at the team for expertise or who you think you want to keep around, like it's just your decision, which is silly because people get to leave. But I think that's really important too, is mergers and acquisition. And that's something that I think I'm pretty good at. And so, those are two things that pop up. Where I can apply this change management is around software implementations and M&A transactions. 

Hannah Munro: 23:53 

I love that. So, and I love you, you know, talking about that there's actually two sides to the story. Like you say, you know, people can, I think there is an assumption in that it's my way or the highway can actually lead to the highway, let's be very honest. And it could be person’s choice. So, how do you balance like the needs of, you know, the needs of the change and, you know, the value of the change to the business, but also with that other person's viewpoint? So, how do you approach it? 

Robert Bendetti: 24:23 

Well, there's usually like a bunch of different reasons for why you're changing to something. Maybe there's like nine or 10 of them. And so, I just lead with the one I think they care about. And then I have like a backup in case they think that's stupid. And then some people will be like, all right, that's, you know, there's something, there's a reason, whatever. And a lot of people have worked at companies, especially middle managers and staff. There's a lot of them who just like work there forever. And they've seen a bunch of new things all the time. And half of them are stupid. And if you just came around and asked, you're like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this new software implementation because I heard a bunch of complaints about the old thing. What do you think? And they're like, yeah, whatever. You know, as long as it's got such and such, that's cool. And then you can just the next time you see me like, hey, we were doing the software implementation, and it has that feature you were talking about. They're like, oh, OK, cool. Well, then they feel like they were heard. And then if you can find there's somebody at every office or every plant that's like a super influencer. And so, when you're trying to get somebody on the team or you're trying to seek the input of others, you need to track, you need to find out who that person is, track them down and early on, have that conversation with them. So, if you're wondering like, well, how do I know who's the super influencer? Well, you're not getting out of the office if you don't know. Like at my company, it's the office managers. We've got offices all over the U.S., Because we're a US-based company, we've experience all over the globe, but where we have offices is in the United States. And those office managers, man, they run the show. And if they think your idea is stupid, it's going nowhere. So, they're not a VP, but they tell the VP what to do. And so, man, at Lifecycle Engineering, if you want something done, you got to talk to the office managers early, get them involved. And if they like your idea, then everybody at the office likes your idea. So, that's who I go to first. I talk to them, get the thumbs up blessing. I'm like, all right, Cope, this is easy now. And there's somebody at every office who's a super influencer. She might be a VP, or he might be a clerk, but they're just people who have outstretched influence in the organization. And you got to find out who those people are. If you're buying a company, at every plant, there is a super influencer. And if they hate you and they hate this acquisition, everyone hates you and everyone hates this acquisition. But if you can kind of get to know them and they think they're like, yeah, that bald guy, he's aint. Well, boom, you're in. And that's, so, you got to look out for the super influencer. Get them at least neutral. 

Hannah Munro: 27:10 

Yeah. 

Unknown: 27:11 

Yeah. 

Hannah Munro: 27:11 

Yeah. And I think that's an interesting perspective, actually, like understanding, like, are they for you? Are they neutral or are they detractor? And figuring out where else on the scale that different people sit. Because yeah. And I love that concept of an influence. We see it a lot. So, you'll have one person in the team normally that is, if they're on board, you've got majority of them. And if they're excited about the project, you've got them. And it's like you say, it's not always the leadership. It really isn't. So, there's an interesting dynamic there. So, okay. So, we talked about dealing with, obviously picking up the influences and managing that through, about understanding what matters to them. So, the what's in it for me. And by the way, our radio stations are obviously nowhere near as organized as yours. We just have like BBC One, BBC2. That's Radio 1, Radio 2. We've really dumbed it down over here in the UK. But yeah, so, what else? You're going through a change management project. This is an interesting one. What's your view on vision and actually how you're discussing the future? And do you approach it if it could mean loss of jobs or reallocation of roles? How would you approach that scenario? 

Robert Bendetti: 28:33 

Yeah, I think you got to be 100 percent straight up and honest with folks and that especially if it was part of the justification for the project. Very often, I think, though, on the side, I think there were a couple of different questions in there. So, one is if the change is going to involve a change to people's job, sometimes it's just all easier, better. And because of this, we're going to grow more. So, we're going to be hiring new people and maybe that's the change. Or half the people are doing it one way, half the people are doing it another way. The other way was stupid. Everybody agrees. So, we're just going to do it the one way, right? So, that can be a change project. But if it's, you know, we, instead of having 10 people do something, we're going to have no people doing something. The 10 people should know. And that, hey, there's 25 open positions. Apply now. And here's the skills to prepare yourself for. These are the skills that you would need to prepare yourself to do those jobs. I'm going to equip you with those. So, if you choose to apply and you want to seek these skills, then you have the ability to do it. Now you're qualified for these other roles. Or when we're done with this, we're eliminating your role and we're going to try to help you find another job. Like, I think you need to be really honest with people. And then they're not sabotaging you along the way. Now they still think you're an idiot. I think that's dumb. I don't like this idea. I quit, but they're not secretly sabotaging you while you're trying to implement it. So, I've done it a couple of different ways. I've tried the covert and then I've just tried the straight up and I just like the direct method. That's what I've been doing the past like 20 years. People seem to appreciate that more. Not appreciate it, but just a little bit more than. And maybe not 100,000% honesty, but direct enough that you're not lying to someone. If you know something, try to prepare people. I think that that's a good method. And I think around vision, when you were asking about vision, mission, do you mean like a company has vision, a change project has a vision or mission, some strategic end goal? Yeah, I think. from the standpoint that the charter of this change management team should include that with a very clear goal. So, there is a flag, and you can speak to it. And I think it needs to be super clear and short because as I'm the person who usually has to communicate it as the CFO, I'm going to have to say it so, much, it makes me nauseous. Then it needs to be really clear and short. Because I don't need... You don't want to have to take like two hours to explain something. You want two minutes. So, if you can explain what you're doing in under two minutes, yeah, go with that. That's the vision. So, if you have seven versions, you have like a long version, a medium version, and a short version, start with a short version, cut it in half. That's your vision mission. And then just say it over and over again until you're sick of it. And when you are so, sick of it, you think... No one could possibly not know what's going on. Say it two more times and then you're good. 

Hannah Munro: 32:32 

So, cut, you know, take your vision, whatever it is, take the shortest possible version, cut it in half and then say it so, many times that you get sick of it and then say a few more is basically what you're saying to us. 

Robert Bendetti: 32:45 

Oh, yeah. And you may have seen the exact same thing, Hannah. But it's nuts to me. I talk a lot. And I like to talk. And there's something I do at this current role every year. And I go to every plant in the organization. I fly or drive everywhere. And I give this speech about something that's a little... It's a benefit to employees. And it's a little unusual. But it's good. And I love talking about it. And the seventh time I did it, someone came up and said... I had no idea we had that at this company. And I was like; I've been mailing something to your house for seven years. This is the seventh time I've been here. I've talked to you. You've been in the room. You know, I didn't say that, but I'm just like, wow, seven. I mean, it's like a half an hour presentation. So, people don't pay attention. You got to say it over and over and over and over again. 

Hannah Munro: 33:43 

Yeah, and I think that's a really good point. You know, with any kind of change management as well is just keep reminding, keep repositioning. And yeah, seven times, there must be a stat about how many times you have to say something to guarantee that somebody has actually paid attention to be very fair. 

Robert Bendetti: 33:59 

Well, probably something like 14, you know, they say, and I think they just start making up these statistics, right? 75% of all statistics are made up is, I think that it's a lot, right? It's more than you think. And people have a life, and they got a lot of things going on. Even in a good season, we're busy. We got a job and then we've got a car that may be having some trouble. House, kids, spouse, family, grandma. And then you got bad seasons where... Oh, you know, you're having to step up and take care of somebody else. And you're just not you're just not all in all the time. And you might have come around twice and caught somebody when they were not all in. They were they had something else they were having to deal with. And then that third time you catch them and they're like, oh, I got you. All right. So, if you got to catch everybody three times till they pay attention, you might have to say something a lot. 

Hannah Munro: 34:55 

Absolutely. And you made a really interesting, I'm just going to pull out. So, one of the things you talked about before, which is saboteurs, because a lot of change management, you know, whatever kind of change management, there's normally a few hidden. Some of that are vocal, and I don't know about you, but I actually prefer the vocal ones because I can address it. I don't like the whispers behind closed doors. That's always the worrying one. So, what's your approach to those that are trying to distract you from achieving the change that you are looking to? 

Robert Bendetti: 35:27 

Well, I used to be surprised. And then real soon, I realized, well, it's not illogical. I'm changing their job for the worse in their mind. They like it the old way. They're an expert in in the old way they're the best at it they're the only person in the plants who knows how to do it the old way with the old thing and so, now I'm coming in with the new whiz bang that's easier well it's easier for everybody else it's not easier for them so, they're going from expert firefighter ninja problem solver to rookie new person uneducated no experience no uh gravitas and I I'm surprised they don't like my new whiz bang. That's just being dumb. So, yeah, they think my idea is stupid. Of course they do. So, I'm just no longer surprised by it. And then the number two thing is I found that when I'm vocal about what I know, mostly to the reasonable level, and I share it vocally, then they share back vocally their dissent most of the time. And if they don't, the super influencer that I 100% have on, you know, involved, she or he tells me, you know, Julie and John, they think you're a total idiot and you need to talk to them. And like John, you might turn around. Julie's going to think you're an idiot all the time. And so, you're going to know there's no more a secret saboteur. It's obvious because you were vocal. So, they're vocal. Or because the super influencer lets you know what's going down. Absolutely. And I love that. And again, folks here, this is not 80% of my life, right? The 80% is I have a day job and I'm doing a change management. The 20% is I'm trying to do my best to seek the input of others, have the thoughts influence the decision because there are smart people out there. I might not have known something. And then I'm trying to find what's in it for them and then share what's in it for them. And I'm trying to nudge them a little bit into neutral. And then you just got to let it go. And because you got other things to do, right? You do not want to be doing this project forever. 

Hannah Munro: 38:00 

Yeah. And I think that's an interesting piece is that very often people do feel like once they're in an implementation that it hasn't got an end. And I think sometimes actually reminding people that this is short term, this is a fixed length of time. And imagine where you're going to be, you know, reading your reports on the beach somewhere, you know, next year, maybe if we're very, very lucky that it does have an end, I guess, an end date, you know, change that particular change will always have an end date with a you might be involved in something else, but I think it's always a, you know, putting limits on times can often help the process because they know it's temporary. They don't, yeah. 

Robert Bendetti: 38:40 

Yeah, you have to. I mean, as a CFO, I think I read in, I think it was CFO Magazine that, yeah, your average for this is a mid-market firm and above and this was probably a us stat I hope it applies anywhere in the world just in the sense that so, this is helpful for somebody the average role length for an executive and in particular the CFO is three to five years so, if you don't have an end date on your project you have an end date on you so, If you are leading change, this is not your job for life. You're going to get fired or you're going to quit. You're going to move. Something's going to happen. So, you better have an end date. Something's going to expire. The project or you. 

Hannah Munro: 39:24 

Make it the project, 

Robert Bendetti: 39:27 

hey? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it'd be better to finish and then leave, like on your own terms for a promotion because some, you know, huge firm, some awesome firm in the UK wants Robert Pendetti to move there and they want to pay me triple. I probably still wouldn't go, not because I don't love the UK, I do, but because I love my job. But yeah, finish the project, have a date, right? You don't put a deadline to your personal life, or your professional life goals, they're not going to get done. So, 100% agree, Hannah. That should be the second thing, right? So, the problem is number one, and then when we're going to be done is number two. 

Unknown: 40:10 

Yeah. 

Hannah Munro: 40:10 

And I will add a second piece to that when time frames. Make it realistic. Don't set yourself up to fail because there is nothing worse. And yeah, listen when you're given advice. There's been a few where I've gone into it. I'm like, you know, it doesn't matter how good I am. I... That's just not achievable. I could be the best consultant in the world, and you physically cannot do it. And I know it and you secretly know it, but you just don't want to move away from it because it's the date that, you know, somebody thought about, and they've said that's the one we're going for. 

Robert Bendetti: 40:41 

Well, they determined that goal. And then they got quotes from five providers and then negotiated the rate for two months. And then finally, and then they went on vacation. So, you couldn't start for another month. And then they're like, yeah, I still have the end date goal. Sorry. It's not my fault that I cut into your schedule by 25%. Yeah. Yeah. I told my boss I'd be done. 

Hannah Munro: 41:04 

Yeah, absolutely. So, you've got to do what happened. And then what will happen is somebody will decide, actually, we want to implement this part of the project at the same time because we had a phase two and actually want to bring that forward just because it's really important to the business and we want to achieve it on the same timeframe. 

Robert Bendetti: 41:19 

Ooh, that sounds recent. I love that. That sounds like that was a recent project. 

Hannah Munro: 41:25 

Yeah. Part, you know, part, I have to say as a consultant, part of the job is setting expectations. And I think, you know, go to your point, the reason a lot of projects fail and having done this for 10 years now, setting and being realistic around expectations from the beginning and what you're delivering and when you're going to delivering it is just one of the biggest things. You know, the people is huge, finding the right technology. Absolutely. But a lot of it comes down to making sure that you both know what you're delivering on both sides of the table. And, you know, and then we get to do the fun bit, which is over exceed and then get people super excited once they get live. So, that's always a good 

Robert Bendetti: 42:05 

place to be. And that, you know, back to the other part of change management. So, the process. So, I've seen on the process side, if somebody is sophisticated enough to put something in, say like Microsoft project or, and really have a Gantt chart and a critical path is that I've seen so, many of them not have any gaps in or waste in the process, like or inefficiency, like us just assuming that that doesn't happen. They're just 72 tasks, primary tasks, and 400 subtasks, and that there's no waste or inefficiency in any step. And, and then that that says will be done in 142 days. And so, that's the goal. I'm just like, uh, So, you make widgets, and you don't assume the machines are 100% efficient and that you have no material waste, but you have a process, you have a change process that assumes perfect efficiency and no waste. Hmm, okay. 

Hannah Munro: 43:05 

And that everyone's going to learn at the same rate, that everyone's going to need the same level of support, the same level of training and all those kinds of things. And I think that's the one thing I would shout out is know the people involved in change and make sure you resource it effectively. um because I've seen so, many change projects that could have gone really well if the like you say the influencers and the right people are given that extra bit of support to help them through um and you know I've uh and I've you know you spot it and you go right let's just do an extra hour with that person because once they get it they'll be away and we'll be laughing um and just having those people inside the business um to spot that and to make sure it happens um because as consultants and this is the one of the reasons we don't we will never know your business as well as you do. And we will never know your people as well as you do. So, I guess that's for me from an external perspective is make sure your consultants get to know your people and tell them what they need to know to be able to do a really good job. 

Robert Bendetti: 44:02 

And I think it's not just your personal life or your professional life, it's your personal life too. I think everything that we're talking about applies to say if you wanted to improve your nutrition or you wanted to improve your fitness or your mental wellness, like every part of this is You got to understand it's not just do you have the ability or say knowledge, but do you have the desire? Truly, do you? And so, you got to treat yourself the same way. And I think all these principles that we're talking about apply to the personal life as well, the professional life. 

Hannah Munro: 44:39 

And you can flip it the other way. So, one of the really interesting things I find when I'm talking to people about making change happen, it's like, if you think about you're going on a diet, you don't go out the day before you go in on a diet and stock the fridge with chocolate and crisps and Coke and Reese's, which I have to say I'm massively addicted to. You just don't do it, do you? You kind of, you clear the decks, and you make it as easy for yourself as possible. And I think that's the one thing that people don't think about before they go into a change project. They assume that people are going to do their same day job, but they're going to somehow find room to do that change project without actually clearing the decks, making it a little bit easier so, that people can make that good decision and not reach for the peanut butter cups that happen to be sitting on the shelf. So, which I will, it's my- 

Robert Bendetti: 45:29 

Amen, sister. And this is a personal passion for me personally, because a few years ago, I lost 65 pounds. And I lost one pound a week for 65 weeks and I lost 65 pounds. I had just looked up one day and realized, wow, I'm a pretty full-figured young man. And maybe a little, maybe large, but I was just not healthy for me. And to your point, Hannah, exact thing. There were some things in my life I could cold turkey, All right, cool. And then there was some stuff that I realized that I need to completely move away from my life. I can't even get near because I can't control myself. And so, Robert Bendetti loves donuts. They got to have donuts in the UK, right? 

Hannah Munro: 46:30 

Oh gosh, yeah. So, Krispy Kremes, we have Krispy Kremes over here. 

Unknown: 46:35 

Yeah. 

Robert Bendetti: 46:35 

But that's actually it. So, the last time I had a donut, I had seven. That was the day before I started my nutrition program. And I had little crumbles of Krispy Kreme, the seventh Krispy Kreme all over my shirt. And I was like, I cannot believe I just ate seven Krispy Kreme donuts. They were hot and they were downstairs near the coffee. I drink a lot of coffee. It started with two and then I had another two and then I had one and I couldn't remember how many I had had. So, I had one more. And then there was a cold one during lunch. And I was just like, oh my God, I had seven Krispy Kreme donuts in four hours. What is going on? And I was like, okay, some stuff I can just have a little bit. And then there's some stuff, got to take it out of the fridge Um, no more, no more Krispy Kreme donuts. So, I, I, um, I won't even go near it. I won't go to a Krispy Kreme. I won't, I won't go to, and it's not because they're bad. Please, the CFO of Krispy Kreme, do not email me. Uh, they're so, awesome. I can't, I can't control myself. And so, um, whether maybe that's in business, there's something you just got to totally stop. Well, in my personal life, um, If I was going to be on this wellness journey, which was something I couldn't control. So, I had to, like you said, I just had to get that out of the proverbial fridge. 

Hannah Munro: 48:03 

Yeah, no, and I think that's an interesting, perhaps an interesting thought to finish on is like, if you're going through change, how do you make that change easy for people, you know, and for those that are interested, some great stuff on nudge theory. So, nudge theory is a really interesting piece if, and you start to notice it when you're walking around the supermarkets once you've read the book. But that is all about how you make small changes easy. to make it easier for people to make the decisions that you want them to make. And I do, I'm a massive believer that with process change as well. So, just to leave that thought with everybody. Well, Robert, thank you so, much for being on the show. Literally, I think we've run out of time. There's a billion questions that I have for you. So, thank you so, much for coming on the show. And maybe if I ask very, very nicely, you'll come back on in the future to talk about some of the things that we were hoping to talk about as well. So, it's been amazing to have you on. 

Robert Bendetti: 48:59 

Well, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I enjoyed it very much. Wonderful. 

Hannah Munro: 49:04 

And so, for those of you that, you know, if our listeners would be interested in sort of following, seeing what you're up to and also learning more about the Global Council. So, before we finish, I'd love to learn more because you founded it. And how long ago did you actually found the council? 

Robert Bendetti: 49:20 

Well, there was something like it in a city that I lived in. about 15 years ago, but I've been leading it for the past six. And then again, it was just people side of my professional life. I realized it's not just enough to be smart and a great accountant. You got to have a peer network. And so, it's an educational and networking forum for senior financial executives. Global CFO Council, we're global now. So, with COVID, before we were just growing with physical chapters, but now we accept members from anywhere in the world and have monthly virtual meetings and virtual social events. Anybody who's a CFO is welcome to join. You just Google Global CFO Council or go to globalcfocouncil.com. It'll pop up. And then for me, the only thing I'm really on is LinkedIn. So, I'm the only Robert Bendetti that's a CFO. I think it's not a very common name. So, Robert Bendetti, connect with me on LinkedIn. Love to connect with your audience. 

Hannah Munro: 50:23 

Fantastic. Well, thank you so, much, Robert. As I said, it's been lovely having you on the show. And for those that are interested, we'll of course pop the link to the Global CFO Council into the show notes and a link to Robert's profile as well. So, thank you, Robert, for sharing all of your stories and knowledge with us today. It's been fantastic to have you on the show. 

Robert Bendetti: 50:42 

Thank you much.