230. CFO Stories | Strategic Growth in Creative Industries – A CFO’s Perspective with Karla Smith

230. CFO Stories | Strategic Growth in Creative Industries – A CFO’s Perspective with Karla Smith

Hannah Munro 0:48

Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0 and with me today is Carla Smith. So, Carla is the CFO at Ogilvy, and it's great to have you on the show, Carla. Thank you for joining me. That's

Karla Smith 1:01

Great to be here. It's lovely to share some thoughts and ideas. So

Hannah Munro 1:05

Tell us a little bit about your background. How did you get into you know that CFO role?

Karla Smith 1:11

I guess for me, it's that it's been a long journey. It started as an audit trainee, as lots of people do, but I ended up in the advertising agent industry quite early on in my career. So out of audit, I came into Ogilvy, which is part of the WPP Group, and I thought, oh, this is interesting. I'll work here for a couple of years. Every company spends money on marketing and advertising. So however long I'm here, it will be useful in whatever industry I move into next, and that journey has just lasted and lasted. I've been at Ogilvy twice in two different periods, but I've learned so much, and the industry has changed so much over the last 2025, years, that it's been somewhere that I've just found I've really enjoyed, and therefore I've stayed such an interesting industry, and actually as an organisation, a really great organisation to be part of, very people focused lots of learning and lots of change, lots of challenge, and a really interesting place to be. My journey to CFO has been fairly straight in the kind of audit and into management, accounting, financial controllership, FD, but I also worked in a small business in Australia for five years, which was an entrepreneurial business packed 20 people. And I think the learnings I got from there, in terms of cash flow, stakeholder management, have really helped me then don't do that. Leapfrog up to the FO when I came back to Ogilvy

Hannah Munro 2:45

and that role in Australia was that the role that sort of sandwiched your two Ogilvy roles? It was, yes,

Karla Smith 2:53

then we moved out to Australia as a family, not for my job, but for my husband's. And I kind of just got a job whilst we were there, but it was very interesting and different part of my career that I realise now when I look back, I was looking after HR, IT finance, kind of a bit of everything that I learned a lot then, and it gave me a lot of confidence in my own abilities to do things that maybe were slightly outside my comfort zone and push myself a bit further. So, yes, that's that was my kind of sandwich role in the in the middle.

Hannah Munro 3:28

And what attracted you back into the role, you know? And what did you see, I guess, as different when you came back into the organisation

Karla Smith 3:38

as an interesting question. When I came back to London, um, we had, I had three children, and one of them was still only two and a half, and I only wanted to work part time. And I think what's quite interesting at a finance director level, it's actually quite hard to get in somewhere new as a part time employee, Ogilvy had moved location and also expanded into some new areas, such as influence, and therefore had kind of changed as a business in the UK. But also, there were some people still here who I knew, and they trusted me to come in at an FD level on a part time basis, on a temporary contract at the beginning, just doing a bit of Mac cover, bit of temporary work. And from then on, it then springboarded, and I've been here now for nine years in my second kind of stint. But I think it's interesting how difficult it is at an FD level to work part time if people don't know you. So, it was helpful to me to come back to somewhere where people knew my abilities and trusted me to be able to do a role at that level, but on a part time basis.

Hannah Munro 4:49

So, with that shift of part time, did you have to change how you structured your work or how you communicated in order to not impact the business? With those reduced hours, did you? Did you? Did you find it difficult to stay, I guess, in the flow with things,

Karla Smith 5:09

I think, I mean I work. I work full time now. I worked part time for 15/16 years, and at all points during that journey I flexed. And the business is flexed as appropriate. So, as I was at the time in FD, there are month ends, there are forecasts, there are certain timings that you have to be around. So I would actually plan my year out and what days I was going to be in and out based on those deadlines quite early on, and make sure we'd got the right cover for the children, so that I could still work part time, but also be there when the business needed me. So, I think there has to be flexibility on both sides to do a role at that level. But for me, it's worked out really well, and I've managed my career has still moved forward whilst working part time, and I'm really pleased about that, because some you know, you would maybe think that you might get stuck when you move kind of into that part time role, but that didn't happen for me. I managed to continue to move forward and keep learning and growing, but on a part time basis, and the business was very understanding of that.

Hannah Munro 6:20

But it also sounds like you really tried to make sure that the change in hours didn't impact on the business. And actually, think through how, like you say, the flex on both sides, which is a is a really great piece how, how you can make sure you support in the business through, yeah,

Karla Smith 6:36

and another way to think about it is obviously the business is saving on a full-time finance director's salary. So, I, you know, I said I need pa support, for example. But obviously you're saving two days or one and a half days, depending on what period of, period of my life, looking at what kind of up time. But, you know, give me some pa hours, give me more assistance, and I can still do the role at the right level, but, and it's costing you the same so I think that's also something to think about, is making sure you're asking for the right assistance, and recognising that and not being afraid to ask. It's quite interesting. On my first of maternity leave, when I came back, I think I responded to what I thought the business needed from me, and then as I went through my career and my own journey, I realized I should ask for what I needed as well, rather than just what the business needed. And my mind kind of flexed a bit to that, but that helped the business and myself, because I was a bit more open about what was needed on both sides,

Hannah Munro 7:38

yeah, some things thinking creatively about how you deliver the results. That's what it's about at the end of the day, isn't it? You know, it's about delivering the value for the business in that role. So fantastic. And obviously you work in a very creative industry. So is there, are there different challenges, I guess, to working in the creative industry versus maybe a more, a different kind of industry. Do you find any particular challenges around finance there? I

Karla Smith 8:06

think, I mean, I guess it's what I've been used to now, because I've been here for a long time in this industry, but I find working in a creative industry really exciting and challenging, partly because people just don't like, oh, generally the staff here don't really like process or following procedure, so I have to make process and procedure understandable to a creative mindset and be able to story tell as to why we need to do things in a certain way. But I find that, rather than allowing that to frustrate me because people don't listen, I actually find that kind of interesting in that I have to learn to work differently with them, rather than expecting them to work with me. Um, over the years, we've had people within the finance community who've come in and out, and some people thrive in this kind of environment and the different personality types you might come into contact with whilst working here, and some people find it very frustrating, and then you just realise it's not the right industry for them to be in, because it's not bigly and become something that fits neatly into a box And a process chart, it's always going to challenge you. And actually, finance needs to learn how to move with those challenges and help the business in the way that the business wants to grow and transform, rather than trying to fit the business into a box so exciting, exciting and always changing.

Hannah Munro 9:40

And so how does that change the profile of the person that you recruit into finance for your industry?

Karla Smith 9:49

We have a team. We have quite a varied team of people within Ogilvy, UK. So, we've got commercial thinkers, we've got more management account COVID. Controllers. We've got people who do reporting, so there's a different spectrum of people that we need across the team, but predominantly what we need people to be as business partners. So, understanding what the business needs from finance, within Ogilvy, we refer to finance as one of the enablement functions. So, we're here to enable the business to grow in whatever direction it wants to grow in, or to support the vision of the CEO. And therefore, we're here to help with that, rather than to hinder it or to close it down. And therefore, within the finance community, I try and work to make sure that the people we've got working with in that community are quite open to change new ways of doing things, thinking about how they present information back to the business when they're doing the business, partnering and making sure that it's interesting and making sure that it catches attention. We've got to think we're competing with, you know, people looking at presentations that are extremely creative and really good storytellers, and we need to emulate some of that as a finance community as well. We do quite a lot of work on that and internal training to get people into that business partnering mode.

Hannah Munro 11:14

So, does that so in terms of how your present numbers, does it change the do you change the language you use? Do you change, I guess, how you present as in the content that you present? How do you approach sharing finance with that creative community? Yeah,

Karla Smith 11:31

So, you have to, we think about visually, how the numbers will look, and then exactly what message we are trying to land? So along the lines of the lot of people follow, you know, making sure you've got three points you want to land and three things that people are going to remember when they walk away, not trying to bombard them with a huge amount of information, but really focusing in in what are the things that are going to help the business move forwards, and what do you need that particular audience to learn, but it's a very visual way of sharing financial information that might be charts, it might be tables, but quite often it's large numbers, or making sure that they're, you know, the numbers you want somebody to look at on a chart are particularly highlighted, coloured, you know, shining whatever, so that you've really got to focus on for that particular stakeholder, what is it that I want you to go away and think about in terms of these numbers and how that works? And I think the other thing that's important is we do try and share it financial information as much as we can, to help people understand how the business is growing and developing, and so that they can understand some of the decisions we might be making as a finance community, so helping give them the context and share that back as often as we can.

Hannah Munro 12:50

Yeah, I can imagine they hold you to a very high standard when it comes to presentations.

Karla Smith 12:55

Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the fun, and we like being held to that standard.

Hannah Munro 13:00

So in terms of how you, I guess, built financial literacy across the organisation, have you found that you've got, you know, a lot of, I guess, commercially aware people within the organisation, how is that something that you and the team have had to work on to build that knowledge of what those numbers mean?

Karla Smith 13:21

That's a really good question. I think across the industry as a whole, within advertising, there's a lot of work that we as a financial community, across the industry try and do. I would say we are continually on a journey. It's quite a young industry, so however much training and coaching do you do? You need to keep that as a continual flow, because there are new people coming through, and people are focused on the client work and keeping the client happy, rather than necessarily, their number one priority being the business and making sure the business is getting what it's needed, needing commercially, from the relationship. And that's great, because you need to focus on both. But we do some internal training, including role plays, etc., on commercial understanding, understanding the numbers, and understanding how to negotiate with a finance team. I really enjoy being part of that, that training as well, and helping their teams move forward and learn.

Hannah Munro 14:24

That sounds really like an exciting piece. It sounds like you guys are maybe a step forward than other finance departments in terms of building awareness with role plays and things like that. I

Karla Smith 14:36

mean, we benefit from being part of a group and part of a wider network. So obviously Ogilvy UK is part of Ogilvy globally, and that commercial training programme has built, been built across our global team, but we have a close connection with that and play a part in it. But yes, it's good, its good fun, and it makes finance a little bit more part of the business, rather than. Something that has to be there. It's part of helping the business move forward. So, the teams all enjoy getting involved.

Hannah Munro 15:08

And obviously you work in an industry where talent is key. How do you evaluate talent-based investments? Because sometimes they can have maybe a longer lifespan before you actually see results. So how do you decide where to invest and which choices to make?

Karla Smith 15:26

That's a really great question, and I'd say it's absolutely in collaboration with the business. So, the finance team and the people team have a very close connection. And looking at what those investments are going to be within each budget cycle, or each forecast cycle, we need to keep a view on short-term results. You know, we're part of a listed group. We have to keep a very close eye on what is going on across the group and what the group needs from us. But also, as the CFO, I need to have a view on the long term position it is going to be and what we need to invest in. So, we look at our early careers investment. We look at investments in different parts of the business that might be growing, or where we can see that clients might have an area of spend in the future. So, I mentioned before our influence marketing practice. I mean that it really only came into existence about seven or eight years ago, and it's grown from two people to over 100 so it's kind of having the foresight to go, okay, this feels like the area that the business needs to invest in. And although it feels uncomfortable sometimes as a CFO, I do not know exactly what that investment is going to lead to. It's about having that connection with the CEO, the people team, and saying, okay, this is the one that we're going to invest in and see where it can take us.

Hannah Munro 16:55

And when you're thinking through those investments, what's your approach in terms of qualifying risk, because obviously, you said it sometimes it can be a bit of an unknown. It can be something that's not well established, so you've not got a huge number of benchmarks or baselines to work off. So how do you think about launching those new products or services or business lines?

Karla Smith 17:18

I mean, we have an internal business plan, looking at the actual cost and time investment and then setting some very clear guidelines in terms of timings and what returns we would expect. I think what's really important when you're looking at investments and plans is making sure you've got a way out of them if it's not leading to what you're all expecting. So agreeing upfront with the stakeholders as to what those timelines are going to be and also what the markers of success are, is really important, and then just keeping a close track on that, not in a constrictive way, because you need to let that investment maybe morph into something slightly different from what you'd all originally planned, but then keeping track on it on a three, 612, month basis, and saying, actually, have we now got to where we thought we would get, or do we need to pull back? Or should we invest more? Because we can see it's going to grow. So, like I said before, it's collaboration, communication, but setting that really clear agreement upfront as to when we're going to stop or carry on and holding ourselves to that not just the finance community, but the rest of the business as well.

Hannah Munro 18:31

So, defining, I guess, clear points or toll gates. I think I've heard them at which point you make a go- or no-go decision to continue?

Karla Smith 18:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And making sure you've got a clear time frame on that. I mean, as the people-based business, the amount of time we invest in some in things, sometimes people forget the value of that. They just look at the value of the third party spend, or, you know, the actual kind of costs we're spending out, and I have to constantly remind them of the value of the time that we're all putting into whatever that project might be as well, and making sure we're evaluating that alongside any actual hard costs,

Hannah Munro 19:15

and obviously working in marketing with it being, you know, quite a creative people driven environment. How do you as an organisation and within finance support the balance between performance and, you know, motivation, because you are so people led? How do you guys find that balance?

Karla Smith 19:35

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it is. It's an interesting point, because we do sometimes have areas of work that might be more interesting for people to work on, but then maybe slightly less beneficial for us commercially as a business, but we make sure we've built into our budget the ability to spend time on areas that are going to. Keep people engaged. I'm very focused on, as I said, you know, partnering with the people team, but looking at, how do we attract talent, how do we retain talent, and making sure that we've got a good handle on that. And part of that is that they're working on interesting briefs. You know that they have time to explore those briefs. So making sure within our budgeting and our planning that we've built in a bit of extra time for areas that people might, you know, find personally rewarding or interesting, we work alongside a number we do a number of pro bono activities each year as well, and they often with organisations that staff get behind and want I want to spend more time on to elevate that work to a higher level.

Hannah Munro 20:50

No, absolutely. And are there any particular challenges that you think are specific to the more creative or people driven organisations, particularly within finance? So

Karla Smith 21:04

The finance stuff, I think, just that constant patience with the business. So, like I referred to before, making sure that we are enablers and business partners. We do need to set some rules. We do need business to follow them, but we need to be mindful that people might not have followed them, and then they need some help on how to navigate around that, or we might find that people have done things later than we were expecting. And how do we help assist them? So, patience and really good people management skills are really important with the finance team, we're not there as a function that just sends out information or just receives emails. We're there as part of the business. We go out, we work with people. We need to make sure we're being mindful of the other requests on those people's time. So, thinking about, you know, when do clients want to work with, with, with our people, versus when? When are they more likely to have time to think about finance within their week? So quite often, we will do finance updates and meetings back to the business on a Friday, just because we know that the client work is slightly more. Clients expect more kind of earlier in the week and by the Friday, yes, obviously we're still doing client work that people have got a little bit more headspace to think about non client work potentially. So, we try and be mindful all the time of the other pressures that are on the staff across the business and fitting ourselves into how that can work. But the most important skill for some to do within the finance community is being interested in what we do. I mean, the reason I've stayed in this industry for over 20 years is because I love the work. I love the people. I think the clients are fantastic and interesting. We work across so many different sectors. So actually, as a finance professional, you have to understand what's going on in professional services. You have to understand what's going on in fast moving consumer goods. You have to understand what's going on in tech startups, etc., because we might have clients across all of those fields, and therefore they're all thinking about those things and how they can go to market. And that's just fascinating, because we're not stuck in one industry. We're actually part of every industry that's out there and keeping an eye on what's going on in the economy and how that's impacting our clients. So, it's a really interesting space to be in. And like I said at the beginning, you know, I came into this industry thinking I'd be here for a couple of years, because everyone spends money on marketing, but I've stayed because it's so fascinating, and you get to work with so many different clients in so many different fields, and that keeps you on your game, because you have to be aware of what's going on across all parts of all sectors.

Hannah Munro 24:03

So, for me, one of the most important things about any transformation project is the partners that you work with. And whilst I'd love to list off a whole host of reasons why itas is the perfect partner for your transformation project, why don't I let our customers do the talk for us.

Hannah Munro 25:14

You mentioned, one of the challenges can sometimes be people maybe taking liberties with the process and not following it to the letter. How do you find the balance as a finance team between giving people flexibility but making sure that you've got the right controls in place? What's your approach?

Karla Smith 25:33

Well, we have to challenge ourselves and challenge the controls we've got in place, which we try and do on a regular basis. We're part of a listed company, so there are some things that just have to happen, and people have to accept that, and we and they are aware of that and they do we look at different ways to approach things. So time sheets is a massive requirement within our business, not just because sometimes the clients need to see how we're spending time, but also for our own internal measurement of how we're performing as a business, it's really important to know what we're spending our time on. Now, people generally don't enjoy completing their time sheets, so we have to look at creative ways of encouraging that, whether that's through spot prizes, whether it's through a general drumbeat, whether it's through kind of email, whether it's through walking around and talking to people, whether it's through education on why it's important, and we recognise that different people have different motivations as to why they would or wouldn't want to do something. So, I think just being very open and accepting, as a finance community that people have other requirements on them other than just completing finance tasks is really important, and we constantly challenge ourselves with a process that feels cumbersome. We then look at what is the actual risk, and what are we trying to work out here, rather than we've got control for the sake of the control, we're constantly trying to challenge ourselves on the purpose of the control, and can we look at how we manage that in a different way, potentially? So sometimes we'll hold the party line. Sometimes we'll say, actually, we hear you, and we'll try and work out how we can make that different.

Hannah Munro 27:19

I think, especially when an organization's been through a lot of growth, it can often be that there's a process for process sakes. It's great to hear that you guys really focus on listening and then decide whether that feedback is valid versus just enforcing the party line.

Karla Smith 27:35

Yeah. And I mean, we're always just looking at risk, aren't we, really? So, it's, it's actually what is the risk we're trying to mitigate here with this control, and if we just put in a control for the sake of it, or is there really a risk here? And I think it's just being pragmatic about that and approaching it with a clear mindset. And it's quite useful having new people coming into the team. I'm always saying to Whoever joins the finance team if you think of a different way of doing something, or you want to try it, bring it, you know, absolutely don't. Don't sit there and pick up what somebody else has done for the last three or four years and do it in the same way. Do it in your own way. And ask why, you know, continuously, continually ask, why is something done in a certain way. Don't just accept that that's just how it is.

Hannah Munro 28:25

And settling back a little bit, you said, obviously you mentioned that you're, you're a listed business when you first shifted into your role as CFO. How much, you know, talk to me about how you developed those skills, you know, around working within a list of business was there a an additional layer of education that you needed to go through in order to feel confident with the requirements around that? Was that something you had from being in the business for so long,

Karla Smith 28:58

I think, because I've been in this business for a long time, I've always understood that. So, Ogilvy is part of Ogilvy globally. So, we have a hierarchy within Ogilvy and a global CFO, and then Ogilvy is part of WPP, so there's obviously a CFO of WPP. So there's quite a lot of layers around and people for me to learn from, which is fantastic, but because I joined the business as a management accountant and was responsible for the statutory accounts quite early on, I've always understood the structure and therefore how this business kind of links into the rest of the network, and I think that's actually really helped me in the position I am as a CFO now, because I understand that kind of the building blocks that lead to what I'm now responsible for. But there are a lot of skills you do need to pick up as a CFO. And part of what we were referring to before about where to invest, where not to invest. Best. They're not things you learn as a management accountant when you're doing the reporting and how to interact with the business and get the best out of everybody. Share information, be open with what's going on financially, so people understand the pressures that we've you know I'm under, so why I'm making some of the decisions I'm making but also being part of what is the strategy of the business. That isn't something you learn as an auditor or a management accountant thinking about business strategy. Where do we want to go next? What should we be doing differently? What's going on in the market? One of the things that's been really useful for me over the last five years is actually being involved in industry bodies. So, I am the treasurer of our industry charity, which is called NABS, the national advertising Benevolent Society, and I've done that since about 2019 and I'm now also treasurer of the IPA, which is the Institute for practitioners in advertising. So, I feel like I've got a good view on the industry and a good network across media owners, media planners and buyers, clients, in a way that I didn't I wouldn't have had just staying within the business. So, stepping outside has really helped me look at the business as a whole and therefore have a more rounded CFO view on strategy and what's going on. I think that's really important not to be just looking internally all the time.

Hannah Munro 31:33

No, I think that's a great shout. I think we sometimes miss the opportunity to take advantage of those networks, whether that's you know, like you say, industry bodies or peers within the within a similar industry, to share, I guess, some of the challenges. It's why, I must admit, it's why I started the podcast in the first place, because they didn't see at that time, there wasn't a huge amount around there. And I guess, you know, if you think back on that first, you know, six months as a new CFO, what did you wish you knew going into it?

Karla Smith 32:07

I guess for me, the first six months were around the connection and the partnership with the CEO. So, it really is about having a very strong partnership with your CEO and understanding what their strategy is going to be and understanding what they need from you. So, I think that's and making sure that the network is outside, because being a CFO within an organisation can feel quite isolating. You're making decisions about a business now, obviously I've got a network above me, because I'm within an organisation. I've got a European CFO, I've got a global one, and I've got a great relationship with them, and that's really helped me on my journey. But making sure you've got other people to go out and talk to who are in a similar role, or they don't even need to be in the same industry, because I think all of us face similar challenges as CFOs in businesses, but just having a network to just share ideas with or thoughts so that you don't feel like you're the only person that's going through that challenge, I think it's really, really important. And then one piece of advice, which is actually from my husband, which is very sensible advice, which is only do what only you can do, so making sure you're really delegating down and not saying yes to everything. So I think you feel as the new CFO responsible for everything, and you need to be in everything, but you need to really then set that team below you or around you, and only attend meetings where only you need to be there, you don't need to be in everything. You need to start trusting other people and enabling them to perform. And that can be quite a big step, that kind of letting go, particularly if you've grown up within an organisation who've been closely responsible for some things to then let somebody else take on the reins of that. And have you

Hannah Munro 34:07

got any tips for anyone who's trying to figure out whether they should or shouldn't be in that meeting? You know, what's you? Have you got a way of assessing if it's something that only you can deal with?

Karla Smith 34:18

Yeah, I think I'm always being really clear. If somebody puts a meeting in Okay, can you just let me know what the purpose of this meeting is, and are we going to be making a decision, you know, and am I needed for that decision? I don't feel afraid to ask why somebody's put some time in your diary, because at the end of the day, they're asking for your time, and your time is a valuable resource that you need to safeguard. So, I think, you know, is there going to be a decision, and do you need me to be there to help make that decision? If there isn't, is it, you know, is it really the best use of time? Or could somebody summarise that for you, just thinking about how many people there are in each meeting that you attend, and do you all need to be there? I think, is really valuable. A thing to be thinking about. I mean, I work in a people-based business, so for us, it's even more critical to just think about how many people need to be in each decision that we're making. Absolutely. You need to take people on a journey, so you need to have the right people in the room. But how many of those people do you really need? And I quite I try and look at my diary, this is something I've been doing a bit more recently, and try and look at how many of those so say I'm looking at next week, how much of next week is based on decisions about next week and things we need to do next week, and how much of next week is about strategic meetings for the future, making sure that there is a good balance of that, and you've got enough of that time in for strategic thinking about future, whether that's future of the department, future of the business, future of your own growth and learning. So just make sure you've got some balance, because it can be very easy to just get caught into the day to day, and to lose that vision for the long-term strategic planning. And that really is one of the big steps from FD to CFO, is being responsible for that longer term strategic planning. So, you need to book that time in with yourself, to have time to think about it. Otherwise, you just get caught up in the day to day, and you can't, you can't kind of take the business forward.

Hannah Munro 36:21

And we've talked about a lot of things with the CFO role, obviously, the relationship with the CEO, the importance of having time for strategic planning. And you also mentioned that your part of a wider global organisation. How has that impacted? How you think of, I guess, your role and your organisation as part of that larger global strategy. How do you approach, I guess, working with that wider organisation,

Karla Smith 36:51

And I think I make sure I'm always listening to what the global organisation wants from the local organisation, because our strategy has to ladder up to what's going on globally and across the whole of the group. So, being open to listening to what that vision looks like and then thinking about how to tailor it for the UK, I've never been someone who's been very set in my way. So, if somebody's got an idea about something, I'm not going to be precious and say, well, that was their idea, not mine, so I'm not going to adopt it. I, you know, I'm very open to just doing what's right for the business, and often what's right for the business might come from a different source or a different person. That's absolutely fine. It doesn't have to be my idea to implement it. And we have a good regional kind of network and get together. I've spent time with most of the FDS from the European region, and our global FD comes over and visits the UK a couple of times a year. And I make sure she always spends time with my whole team so they hear the vision from her directly and see her as an individual and a person, not just somebody who sets the vision a long way away, but is somebody that we all respect and enjoy working with. So, making sure there's a connection between my team and that global position as well. So, it doesn't just filter from me, but they know directly from our global CFO,

Hannah Munro 38:24

and I think I'm rapidly realising we're running out of time. And I would be very remiss if I didn't talk about finance and marketing, given what you guys do. So have you got any, I guess, tips or tricks for how people should think about marketing as an investment as they and how they should assess the value of that investment when they're making decisions around marketing.

Karla Smith 38:50

I mean, absolutely I would. I would love it if every CFO set their marketing budget as a potential, as a percentage of their future revenue expectation. Some CFOs do still see marketing as a cost that has to be born, but it absolutely is part of your growth strategy. For any business, I would advise marketing budgets to be fluid, so that you have one CMO who is across all of the elements of your marketing spend. So if you can see that a certain discipline is helping drive particular sales that you've got, you've got that ability to switch budgets from one place to another, I think it's absolutely critical if you're using an external agency like Ogilvy, lots of people have in house marketing, and that's fantastic as well. If you are using an agency, build a mechanism with your agency where you both benefit if there's success. So, your agency will be open to looking at how to be remunerated based on your success factor. Actors, and therefore really driven to make sure that your marketing delivers exactly on the KPIs that you're measuring yourself on as a business. So that would be a really important tip, I think, for any CFO looking at their marketing budget moving forwards,

Hannah Munro 40:15

amazing. And thank you so much, Carla for coming on, coming to the show and talking about your experience. And if you had one piece of advice for a new CFO, stepping a troll, what would it be?

Karla Smith 40:32

Take your time. Just take your time looking around, getting to know people. You don't need to make decisions in the first month but then do make decisions and stick to them.

Hannah Munro 40:45

Amazing. Well. Thank you so much. If you know, our listeners want to learn more about yourself, about Ogilvy, where is the best place to learn more?

Karla Smith 40:55

So, I'm on LinkedIn. I think that's the best place to reach out. On there, constantly looking at what's going on around in the industry. So yeah, please do feel free to contact me. Carla Smith Ogilvy, UK, you'll find me on LinkedIn.

Hannah Munro 41:09

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Carla and to all of our listeners. If you've enjoyed this podcast, if I've missed a few questions, you think I should have asked them, please don't hesitate to reach out. And of course, if you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and a comment. Thank you again, Carla for joining me, and thank you to our listeners for joining us for this episode on the CFO 4.0 podcast.