48. Dealing with change in finance projects and teams – with Alexandra Bond-Burnett

48. Dealing with change in finance projects and teams – with Alexandra Bond-Burnett, Executive Coach, Speaking Ambition

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Hannah Munro 1:10   

so, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0 as usual. My name is Hannah Munro, and I'm your hostess for today. And with me today is Alexandra Bon Burnett. So, Alexandra is an executive coach and founder of speaking ambition, whose focus is all about working with finance talent to create remarkable people skills. So welcome Alex. It's great to have you on the show.  

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 1:34   

Hi, Hannah. Thank you for having me wonderful.  

Hannah Munro 1:37   

So, tell us a little bit about how you ended up founding speaking ambition and how you ended up working as a coach, what made you step into that role? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 1:48   

Oh, this is going to be a huge question, and there is a bit of a story behind it. I find that most coaches, you don't step just suddenly go, I'm going to be a coach, although I'm sure probably some people do, but it's coaching is about helping people find their own way forward. So, in some respects, you've had to have had some sort of journey yourself. For me, my journey was always a little bit two sided. And that I had, I worked in, initially in finance. And I had a finance career just from, from leaving school and working my way up with a bit of elbow grease, really, and, and, and going into corporate. 
 But there was this other side to me. I actually was a bit of a, I was about to say the ugly duckling, but the odd sheep, the black sheep in the family, because I came from a family where having what you would call a regular kind of nine to five corporate job was very, very peculiar. All of my family are very creative storytellers, journalists, writers, that kind of thing so very different type of world to the world that I then found myself fitting into and the skills that I found myself having those analytical skills, but later down the line, I did find that I harboured a love for both. So, I actually did end up going to drama school. It wasn't the acting, per se that I was really interested in, so I did two years of acting, and then I actually did a follow up degree in how we behave and our characters and how our emotions affect that, because that's actually what happens in performance. And I love that, and I fell in love with that. And I suddenly started going into meeting rooms and going, I can see what's happening here. I can see what's going on behind the scenes. And almost if I was about to direct this, and we're about to work on this and analyse this, as we would do in performance, I went, oh, this could be a lot better. And that led me to this wonderful journey. I kind of left that that side of things, and I went into education. I worked with universities, and I worked then as the Head of Education with training companies and on confidence and communication skills and really how to get the very best out of someone and our relationships? And I love doing that. So that's ultimately, I went into the training side of life. So, I've been training for over 10 years now, and alongside that, I actually ended up finding an accountancy practice and did that for seven years as well. And now, and now, I'm using all of that experience to work with professionals, to work with individuals, to really help them with their confidence, their communication and overall, their emotional skills when it comes to being effective. So that's the journey I've been on so far, and it's to. It's been a wild ride so far, 

Hannah Munro 5:01   

absolutely, and I guess that's why I was keen to have you on the show to talk about that crossover. Because as finance professionals, you know, we're often seen as extremely analytical, data orientated. Great. It's sort of the I'll call the nuts and bolts. But actually, what with the transition that's happening in finance at the moment, a lot more of those people skills, I think is perhaps the wrong word, but certainly communication, change management skills coming through is becoming ever so much more important. So, one of the things I want to talk to you today about is the emotional intelligence side, because that's a word that gets bandied around a lot, doesn't it, and it's used in all sorts of contacts. So, it'd be great to perhaps start for our listeners with a definition of what we mean by emotional intelligence, what it is. How do we know if we've got it 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 5:51   

exactly because it's actually being listed as a core competency now, in terms of a professional competency. So being emotionally intelligent means very I'll put it really super simply. It means being absolutely self-aware of what your emotions are as an individual and what they do for you. How do they serve you and the work that you do? So, we could say that that's actually about recognising your emotions, but also regulating your emotions, and there's a lot of work. We were only just really discovering this, and I say only just really, kind of, in the last kind of 2030, years that with there's been so much work and psychology and how our emotions affect us, and they really do a lot of our training, especially when in a finance career is solely focused on IQ, but EQ, which is the emotional competency, is about how you manage that. So it's our resilience, it's our sustainability, it's how you're working with different people and character types, and also in especially over the last year, stress levels, how we show up, and how we show up as energised, not just when we want to, but actually in a way that really works for the role that that you do as well. 

Hannah Munro 7:11   

And so talked a little bit about the link between change and transformation and high levels of EQ. What's the connection there. Where do the two paths meet? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 7:24   

Okay, well, I think we've all heard that humans not so good with change sometimes. 

Hannah Munro 7:32   

Yeah, funny enough to Why do you come across and even the ones that are good with it don't particularly like it. 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 7:40   

Yes, I mean, it's all about that feeling of safety, isn't it? We there are some people that will jump off a cliff feet first, going, you know, and, and there'll be the trailblazers, in a sense, and then there are the people that go, Oh, I'm not quite so sure about this. No, quite happy where I am, even if it's not very nice, and that's the thing, when you're dealing with change and transformation, you've got to be so acutely aware of all of the people that you're working with and where they're at, and how safe they're feeling, in a sense, because if they're feeling terrified to A point they are going to do everything they can to make your job as tough as possible and to go kicking and screaming into the void. So it's about really being aware, and it can be as simply, as simple as the way that you phrase questions or ask, you know, invite people into the process and just or even acknowledging the fear it can be so as simple as that, but sometimes we forget to do it because we've got deadlines and an agenda and everything is really fast paced, especially when it's come for instance, data analytics and Things like that, and the fast changes that have happened there. So, it's effectively changes about helping people feel that they can safely venture forward and they're not leaving anything behind. And it's going to be a positive experience. 

Hannah Munro 9:18   

because even those with high levels of EQ, as you know, you know, can still be apprehensive about change. So, if I think about put myself in, you know, I have this real thing about changing my mobile right? I deliver transformation projects for a living. Yet asked me to change my mobile phone, and I put it off for about three weeks, if I'm being very honest. So, so, why is that? Is So, you know, is it context specific? So, does it depend on the type of change? Talk to us a little bit about the factors that can affect whether somebody is comfortable with change.  

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 9:51   

Okay, well, it's funny you say that about the mobile phone because I had an experience somewhat similar yesterday, which is. It. And this happens, doesn't it? So, for the first time since the pandemic, we actually had some cleaners come into my home and they were going to do a huge like deep clean and everything. And whereas my husband's super excited, because he's a complete clean freak, he loves it. He was I walked in, and I was like, things have been moved. I'm not quite sure about this. And I just probably went really uptight and very like, almost clenched, like, I don't like this. Where's this? Where's that gone? I don't like the change in my in my homestead, something I can rely upon, has suddenly been on upended, and it's made me feel very uncomfortable and very out my comfort zone. And I had to really explore that and go, okay, this is really not that big a deal. And actually, you know, the job is really good. And it's, it's very nice, it's one of these things. And, yeah, so at the end of the day, it's, it's really about identifying what your needs are and also what you value. So, I often say most disagreements or difficult conversations actually centre around a friction point. So, this, this place where different values are kind of irking or rubbing together, in a sense. And it means that whereas I like to be a value of mine is almost or a need of mine is to have a sense of control and a sense of knowing what's you know, being at the steering wheel so someone coming into my home, my personal space, and moving where things are and rearranging the kitchen worktops and where the kettle is and the coffee machine is completely disrupted. My sense of control over and that control is, is a sense of safety as well, because I can, if I have control, I know where I can go to. And we all have these little kind of quirks that relate to just our sense of our place in the world and our control on the steering wheel as we move forward. So, then you've got to look at, okay, where can I get this from somewhere else, or is that really something I should be worried about? Is this really a threat right now? So just starting with going, okay, what is this? What's going on here? What am I actually wanting from this? So, I call it the surface level. Okay, I'm freaking out because I've got control. And my Nespresso machine is the other end of the kitchen, and then there's the other end of it, which is, okay, what dig? Let's dig that down a little bit. What really is that, okay, it's disrupted my sense of control over a space that is mine. Do I really need that? Why do I really need that? What's actually going on there? And just by even asking that question, you're going to feel a sense of ease and actually, or even having that kind of coaching conversation with other people, if you're going right, what's happening here for you? Why? You know? What do you need from this process? So, our needs are really powerful because they drive our decision-making process, being aware of what our values are as well and how we make decisions that. And then what I always say is, once you understand that, then you can walk, walk, work towards a common goal together, rather than rubbing at that friction point and getting stuck. 

Hannah Munro 13:45   

So I think what we're saying here is maybe having conversations ahead of time, ahead before we hit that friction point is how you avoid getting to a point where it escalates so, so and a lot of the conversation, certainly when we're talking about emotional intelligence earlier, we're very much about our we're very much about our own emotional intelligence. So, what would how would you approach it? So say, when we're about to start a change and transformation project, we're going to implement a new system, what would be your approach with your finance team to ensure that everyone's on the same page, and we're all really clear about, you know, where, where each, I guess, where each other's at in that conversation, 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 14:27   

That's a really great question. First of all, yeah, it's, as you just rightly said, you said, it's emotion, that emotional intelligence piece can be all about you and what's going on for you. And that's, that's self-awareness. It's just knowing what irks you, knowing what your trigger points are, what could set you off, and also other characters in the room, other people and personalities. So, I've often had it with teams, that some of the issues can actually just be a simple. All, not even personality clash, but just start not quite understanding or having a level of compassion or empathy with oh, that's just how they like to communicate, and that isn't anything against me. So if someone is very analytical and process driven, if you're up against someone who is very results driven, just want to know the end result, what we call a dominant personality who can be very outgoing and very task focused, versus someone who's very analytical, who's really likes to have all the steps in place and likes to know how we got to that evidence place then, then it's that. So going back to your question, the more that we learn about ourselves and what our needs are, the more we actually understand about other people and have that. So, what I would do in that scenario is, first of all, have the conversation about, okay, what are our triggers here? What's going to trip us up? Where our strengths, um, what, who lends what to the situation. And then when you're kind of compliant compiling issues, it's about making sure you're using your team to their absolute strong points, and really recognising what people need and need to understand. And once you've kind of done that base level about, I suppose, internal impact and internal influence, what's going on emotionally, that automatically directs what happens externally. And then we're talking about kind of speaking skills and how we influence and all of that. So, it's definitely a process where it moves along. So, once we have a key understanding of strengths and do it a bit of a conversation, what can go wrong? What do we need here? What's going to come up ahead of us? How can we flat How can we monitor this and flag this up? Then it gets really a lot easier to manage, and then everyone's aware of what more potential issues can come up along the road. The other thing I would say is, is having a really clear point, if you have to have check in points and almost like a question to say between, especially if you're working as a close-knit team without outside teams, is going right? If something is going wrong here, instead of taking it at face value, let's dig that down what is actually going on here, because the key point about emotional intelligence is that we're we are human, and as much as we bring our professional selves outside influences also do affect the work that we deliver so and I've had it recently in conversations where someone wasn't quite they weren't quite showing up as themselves, and the CFO in question thought it was something to do with a new team member, and there was something going on there, and they had to sort it out. But actually, what it was when the conversation just, you know, 10 minutes set aside to actually have a coffee and a human interaction, was that there was a lot of personal stuff that was going on at home, and it automatically been assumed and read that it was something at work that was causing the issue. So, I think the if I, if anyone, can leave this with anything, it's just to dig a bit deeper than surface level. When we take things at face value, that's when that's why we need emotional intelligence. We're a lot more complex, a lot like the systems and processes we work with. So just ask the question, what's really going on here? Because a lot of the time, what we say isn't really what we mean. 

Hannah Munro 18:52   

And that's a really interesting point, though, what we say and what we mean, it can be quite challenging. You know, especially just imagine we're a new CFO coming in to lead a team or and, you know, as part of that shift, what you've been forced into do is get a new system in, you know, how do you get to a point where you can have those, those deep and meaningful conversations with your team, you know, and address those concerns and put without sort of becoming, it becoming too aggressive, perhaps with the right terminology I'm looking for, you know. So how do you get to a level where you can actually have those conversations, and that you can create an environment where people feel safe to tell you about what, what's going on at home, or what, what else is happening? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 19:38   

It's a lot about the space and the environment we don't have. We've heard that. I think the term psychological safety is used a lot at the moment, and that is the space to be challenged, and it's about creating, creating that environment, whether it's over zoom, whether it's. Having a coffee or a lunch or something like that, or even in the meeting room, but setting up at the very beginning every conversation, what the expectations are from everyone, and also being really clear that you are there to hypothesise together, almost scientific thinking, rather than I'm going to be right, because I'm the leader, and you can add things, but you can't challenge me. So, it's a lot about, there's so much when it comes to hierarchy. A lot of, a lot of people always really, almost afraid for their career paths, for their jobs, to actually speak out and up about something that they think potentially isn't right. So, if you can create that environment from the off to say, I am, you know, this is how I'm going to show up. This is how I'm here for you. And these are the boundaries as well. Then people have this space and freedom to have a conversation, and they know what's expected of them. And equally, if they think something is wrong or they want to be challenged, or they even need to share something that's fairly personal, then they have that space to do, and it can be really as simple as just being absolutely clear when you're starting about what those expectations are. It's about, as I say, it's that space, that environment, to say, this is what I expect of you. This is what and this is what I expect you to expect of me as well. 

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Hannah Munro 22:10   

so I guess one of the interesting pieces, and sometimes one of the more frightening areas of a new system going in or a transformation project happening, is that is that safety aspect, as people may be uncertain about what it means for their role, for their job, for their future. So how do you address that? You know, especially when there it perhaps isn't a great answer at the end of the tunnel. What would you recommend in terms of an approach? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 22:38   

It's so tricky, isn't it, it's a horrible place to be in because can't guarantee anything, and that can be the risk is that you want to say it'll be all right, it'll be okay, but then you might have to go back on your word, and that's going to feel awful for everyone and really knock confidence and morale and all of that. So again, this is where assertiveness and having those skills and that confidence to go in, knowing that it's okay to have a difficult conversation and it's okay to not know the answer right now. But again, dig it down if you don't have the answer, what answer could you give them that's going to give them the support that they're really asking for? Because what they want to know surface level, is my job safe? If you don't know that, what is the next deep-down level, am I safe? So, if you can't answer that question, what else can you offer that will provide some level of even the smallest amount of security? Because, because, assuming there will be a process, if they do lose their jobs, then there will be something that happens afterwards. So it's about making sure you're keeping honest and keeping, obviously, within your boundaries, making sure you're also being assertive and being that stronger influential voice, so that they don't feel like, like I use a lot of boat analogies, like the ship is going, you know, is not in safe hands, and because that's at the end of the day, I often refer to Maslow's hierarchy. For those of you who aren't aware, it's about our needs as human beings and individuals, and effectively, and especially when it comes to change. And this is why we're scared of change, is those bottom levels are all about our survival needs, and all communication, all communication, essentially comes down to, am I going to survive, or aren't I? I'm scared, because am I going to get through to the next you know, am I going to have a roof over my head? Am I going to have water or shelter or even. Am I going to feel shame and feel emotionally outcast or embarrassed about my position and being out of work and going on to the next thing and that uncertainty? So as much as you can do to provide that strength and really ask again, what are they really asking from me here? Because if I can't answer that right now, what else can I offer them to provide themselves? 

Hannah Munro 25:27   

So, in that case, would that just be an honest conversation about you know, we haven't. We haven't made any decisions about where we're going afterwards, but there will be a process and perhaps reinforcing the fact that actually going through this transformation and making it a success would reflect favourably, perhaps on them, and give them some great experience that would, you know, add to their CV and having so basically being honest, but also trying to help them understand that you're here, and there are Some good things that could come out of this? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 26:03   

Yes, I will say yes, but with a huge caveat, because this leads to a much huge question of company culture and the HR department and everything like that. Because, yeah, you can only the worst thing that could probably happen is that you say something like yes, and you will be taken care of, and then it doesn't happen, or it happens late, or there's a process delay. And I've you know, worked with finance partners before in that the frustration and the pressure, if something isn't, if the whole system isn't up to scratch then, then it's you. So, you've got to work closely. Actually, it's a, probably a good point. So, you've got to make sure you're working closely and really know what's happening in the other arms of the business, and have those relationships as well, just so that when you know you can say something, you can back it up to some level. So, what you don't want to do is say something that isn't true or then doesn't happen, because that's going to create chaos. So that is it is always the problem with people. How can you promise something when you don't know have a certainty, and we don't have certainties, and that's the issue with change. All we can do, though, is show up being really aware of how we operate as our best, being really open when we're not operating at our best and what affects us, and being really aware of what's happening for other people, and just being responsive to that so that it's being able to, as my mentor says, dance in the moment with those people. And it's that once you have emotional intelligence and you're aware of what your trigger points are, what your strengths are, what emotions cause issues from you, like whether you're quick to get angry, whether you know you've had a really, really rubbish morning that you've been stuck in traffic and spilled your coffee over your shirt and something's happened and then you're going to snap at everyone as soon as you get into the office. What helps you there, or what helps someone else again? Once you have that ability, that's the point of emotional intelligence. It means that you should be able to navigate your way through many difficult conversations. 

Hannah Munro 28:27   

And I think that's you know, it comes back to that balance, isn't it, between knowing yourself and knowing your team, and both are just as important in some ways, because you know, either one without the other doesn't work in terms of leading change and driving that transformation. So, we talked a lot about sort of that in that initial piece. So having those difficult conversations up front, understanding or trying to understand and get to the bottom of any fears or concerns around the change that's going to happen. What about during a project? How do you make sure that that that good start isn't lost, and that you continue that wave and that support? What are the sort of the gotchas that you can see as you go through a project you should be looking out for? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 29:16   

So, I just made, just made a joke about my boat analogy. So, I'm going to go into my other one, which is usually athletics. Okay? So a project, just like most things, is, you know, has a start point, has an end point, and you've got to have some resilience and sustainability to keep performance going throughout to say you reach that, that deadline, that mark, that that first hurdle and get the gold medal, hopefully. So, what that takes is really making, I mean, just like an athlete, would I say this all the time in terms of pre. Preparation, and again, being really aware of your needs and really looking at what you everyone needs to have to keep going and sustain a certain level of performance. And so, for instance, my office here is on a high street. If you're about to ask me to run down the high street, what you get at the very end is an out of breath, sweaty mess in no fit shape whatsoever. And, you know, probably having an asthma attack or something like that. Just be, just be awful, just not good. However, if you gave you said, right at the end of the month, Alex, you've got to you are going to do a sprint down the high street. And you know, we're going to be monitoring your personal best here and reaching out. Now I'm going to practice that, and I'm going to look at exactly what I need and where I get tired, and where we lose energy and where we gain energy. And these are, I think we've especially seen this in the last year, and with remote working is that we've got people who are at burnout point, and that burnout point means that when you're on a project, you need to be really aware of not only the people, but what the actual project needs, and almost have an allowance that you're Going to hit bumps. And I, I was speaking to someone earlier this week, who was, who was on a project, and it's one of those ones where everything, every time they go into something, they're the opening up another rabbit hole where it's a complete mess, and they're trying to get all the processes created that need to happen. But every time they unpick something, it creates something else that needs to be done. And then you end up in that situation, which I'm sure so many people will be familiar with, where you feel like you're just constantly firefighting and not actually making any progress whatsoever to what needs to be done. And that can be so demoralising, especially when and a lot I've I generalise here, but I feel a lot of people in, especially in a finance role, because it is technical, a lot of people really thrive of that feeling of I'm doing a great job here, and I'm really satisfying my own requirements and needs to do, to achieve and do better. So, if you feel like you're firefighting and there are just problems in your face all the time, then it just it all kind of the energy falls apart and morale falls apart. So, I'll go back to what I said at the beginning. It's about expectations. If you almost say, right, what problems are we going to anticipate? And let's just change our mindset on those. So, if we expect them, we know it's a good thing that we've got to find them. So if you're going through a project, mark out what, what are the bad things that can go wrong and are going to happen and every and just think about it, because when you hit those and you go, Oh, gosh, not another one, I'm doing a bad job I'm doing, and that's going to affect you negatively, that emotion of failure, it can weigh heavily on people's ability to show up confidently, and, and, and also, because, especially In finance, were quite risk averse, in a sense, because of the nature of the job and remaining compliant. But the other side of the scale is if we turn that around and actually kind of flip the lens a little and say, what if we know that these bad, some of these bad things are going to happen in the process. What if we said Good, good every time they happened, and it's like a tick box, great. That's out of the way. We know that's there now, and now we feel good. We've actually had a success because we've found something wrong that needs to be dealt with. This is great news, and that creates just this complete flip around. Because in a sense, it is good. It's going to happen. These things are inevitable. Bit like having a building project at home. It's always going to run late, isn't it, it's always going to have a delay. So, you budget for that. So, I think the thing is, budget for the bad things, or the hiccups, or the messes that you're going to have to fire fight and think about how you can reframe that in a positive way, so that your team can keep morale. You can keep morale, and it can feel like a success rather than a constant failure. 

Hannah Munro 34:36   

And there is something about that. So, one of the things that we always look for is small wins, because there is a tendency with, I think it's the perfectionist in finance people that they want to change everything at once and make everything perfect. And sometimes there is a piece around, do we need to change this right now? Right if we don't change this, can we still continue? Continue with this but put it on the list for the phase two. Can we shift that out? And I think that's always it's surprisingly hard to sometimes have that conversation say guys like, I know it's an issue. I know it needs to be dealt with, but does it need to be dealt with right now and shifting that house? And I can just Yeah, because once you start digging into processes and digging into systems, you'll always find something. 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 35:23   

Yeah, you're and it's exhausting, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, you're so right. There's, there is a very much a perfectionist vibe sometimes going wrong. It's like, I want it right and I want it right now, but it's really difficult, isn't it, to prioritise. I think we've all been in that situation. Tell me, you know, if you have in terms of everything feels like a priority? 

Hannah Munro 35:51   

Yeah, and I think this is this perception, especially around transformation, and I've seen this in both in process orientated projects and also technology ones where it's, rather than seen as a journey, it's seen as a destination. So, the end goal is just the systems in and actually, that's not the end goal. The end goal is that the transformation that that technology is going to deliver, and it's, you know, it's going to continue to go but coming back to, I think the point you made earlier, what are the milestones? What are the measures of success as we go through? And to use your analogy, you know, we're not going to aim to sprint. It in the, you know, in the four-minute mile, or whatever. We're deciding to aim for. We're going to set ourselves a realistic target, but next year we're going to hit that, that amazing personal best. And, you know, drive, drive something forward. So, I think there's, there's always that balance between realism I think about what is feasibly possible, because that's, you know, we all, we all want to achieve more than we physically can. And, yeah, overachievers, there's a lot of us in finance. 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 36:58   

And yes, so look, companies ask a lot of us these days, and the world asks a lot of this these days, but even more so we ask, or you ask a lot of yourselves these days, and so it is a case of when, when's that end point for you? I love that you said that it's not it's just a destiny. It's not a destination, it's not a finishing point, but it's an ongoing journey. So actually, have you thought about, and some people get lost so much in the detail. So, have you thought about for you, when is the point that you will feel that you have achieved something? When is that achievement point for you? And it isn't just about the delivery and what that looks like. What, what else is there to that? When will it ever feel like you've had a moment where, yes, this is good. Now, let's keep going and that's a lot about that emotional sustainability, in a sense, is what makes you feel. When is that point? When will you sit and look around and go, okay, yes, because that will only be a moment, and then you've got to go on to the next thing. 

Hannah Munro 38:09   

And I love that. It's always the create those moments. So, create the points at which you're going to celebrate with your team. Okay, yes, we signed off testing. Yes, we were live. Yes, we've done our first month ends, you know, all of those key points. You know, how do you create them? How do you find them within the team as you go through and yeah, how do you share and celebrate those successes? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 38:36   

It's like you said about you’re the little wins, the small wins and they're like yes moments, it absolutely and then there is a science to that as well, because that's how our with neuroplasticity, in terms of how we create new neural pathways and how we form better habits and things like that. Having those yes moments, it can sound sometimes a little bit free, sometimes a little bit woo, woo. But actually, those create hormones. And those hormones and chemicals in your brain are what actually, along with repetition, along with sustaining something, but it's those always feel-good hormones. That's when things stick. That's when you create, actually permanent change or not permanent change, but fluidity in your in the way your brain works as well. So if you're trying to create great habits or reinforce behaviours in the team as well, you've got to have those, those great moments, purely because if you don't have the chemicals going in there, you're going to fail to reinforce that, that neural pathway and that's is a so that's the bit of a kind of, like the more geeky, scientific side of it, but that's why those wins are so important. So, it isn't just a yes, great we've had, we've had a great time. We've celebrated. There's a real reason to do it, and that's when you start really getting. To the groove of being high performing. 

Hannah Munro 40:01   

Yeah, and I think that's, that's a great tip for everyone to think about, is that, how do you, especially with systems and processes, how do you turn them into habits, and how do you, like you say, reinforce those pathways so we don't drift back to the old way of doing things just because it's easier and just because we know it so and so as I said, we've almost run out of time here. So, what are your top tips for anyone that's approaching a new change project or perhaps even undergoing one, and it's not quite going to plan? What are your top tips for getting back on track and or setting things off in a great direction? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 40:39   

Okay, so yes, there's a process of really, from the emotional level, I'm going to say, really look at the energy that you're looking to sustain this with. Look at who is involved. Really look at the people and who they are and what they deliver. So, I often do personality checks. I use disc, which is a personality profiling tool. It looks at profiles and preferences, but there are so many out there, you don't need to do a whole biometric on them or psychometric on them but be really aware of who they are. Who are you working with, because you are a team together. So, you've got to notice when someone isn't operating. You know whether it's if you've got kind of a member down and who's going to step in, you've got to be focused on that common goal. So be really so the tips are, first of all, make sure you all know each other. How do you react to things? When do you react that things in a positive and in a negative way. What are your strengths? So be really aware of each other's strengths and really build that ability to communicate effectively and clearly between all of you. So that's a really great foundation to start with, and that emotional intelligence is in being aware of what affects you, what emotions you feel, and when you feel them, and when they're when, mainly when you're at your best performance, what has got you there, what has led to that, and what takes you away from that? So those are the key things. And then be aware of how the whole team gel together as well, and iron out those points before you get there. Then the second thing I do is think, really, what do we need to get to the next step, the next KPI, the next milestone as people, not just what we need in terms of processes and tools and techniques, but actually, what do we all need in terms of energy? Have we got holidays booked in? Are people feeling stressed about this? Let's really try to avoid burnout, because not great emotionally or for morale, but also very expensive as well. So really have a think about those key points so that just to go over that again and make sure you're being really aware of the team personality strengths. Make sure that your team as individuals are building their self-awareness about when they are at their best and what knocks them off from being their very best. Make sure you have a process for flagging problems up and for really creating that safe space to make sure that people can have a conversation and say, I'm not okay, or I think this could be wrong, but I'm not sure, and make sure that they feel safe to hypothesise with you as a team and then mark out what you're going to need to get through your journey and celebrate the wins. 

Hannah Munro 43:48   

Awesome. Well, for those that are perhaps interested in exploring more about what you guys do at speaking ambition, or about what you do as lead Coach, how can they find out more about you? Sure? 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 44:02   

So, I'm on LinkedIn under Alexandra bomb Burnett. We've also got the company page, speaking ambition. And you can go to our website, which is speaking ambition.com and on there, you can see a lot about our personal impact programmes and also coaching for special projects. And just helping, helping you find a way forward is what we do. So go check that out. There's some free tools and resources as 

Hannah Munro 44:27   

well. Awesome. So, for anyone that's interested, I will pop those links in the show notes, and I just want to say a massive thank you, Alex, for joining us on the show today. It's been fantastic to hear your advice and your guidance and get to sort of some of the science behind some of the things that work. 

Alexandra Bond-Burnett 44:44   

Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.