47. Survey of CFOs reveals the importance of automating finance - with Chris Beeley

47. Survey of CFOs reveals the importance of automating finance - with Chris Beeley, embracent

Hannah Munro: 0:46 

So, hello everybody and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. For those of you that are watching the video as well as the audio, you might notice we've got a change of background today. So, I'm excited to announce that, you know, we're starting to roll back into the office. So, this is all, as I was saying to my guest, Chris, this is a new experience for me recording in a different environment. So, bear with us as we go through. So, with me today is Chris Beely, who is practice lead from Embracent, and his role is all about leading financial change or transformation and automation at Embracent. So, welcome, Chris. It's lovely to have you on the show and here to talk to us all about your research. So, tell us a little bit about yourself, Chris. How did you end up at Embracent? 

Chris Beeley: 1:35 

Yeah. Hi, Hannah, and thank you very much for the invitation today. Delighted to share with you my experience and some thoughts on our recent automation survey. with CFOs. So, I'm, as you can tell by my face and lack of hair, been around finance transformation for many, many years. I started my career back in the mid-80s with Robson Rose, qualified in 89, spent 80 months with EY in Abu Dhabi from 1992 and survived the Gulf War. Then about eight years with FTSE 250 companies in senior finance rolls around Yorkshire and then joined KPMG in 99. and was at KPMG for 20 plus years. So, until the start of 2020, just before the pandemic hit. So, you know, great timing, but there we go. So, my background is very much finance transformation. I've led a huge number of engagements across private and public sector clients in my 20 years at KPMG. I was also the chief operating officer for the management consulting business and the banking segment for about three years of my time in the Big Four, which again was a fantastic challenge and relished that opportunity. But I joined Embracent 18 months ago, February last year, to help, I guess, be the voice of Embracent with CFOs. A lot of the work that Embracent does, and I'll talk a bit about Embracent in a minute or two, is working in technology areas in the back office, often sponsored by the CFO. So, my role is to promote Embracent, to work with CFOs, with clients, and help them to embrace new technology. And that's where the name Embracent came from. So, the business was set up before I joined. It was set up around about five or so, years ago. Because Mark and the other leaders, the founders, felt that in many cases clients were probably being disrupted by shiny new tech. So, they wanted to create a consulting business to sit alongside those clients and really help them through the journey of technology and the potential disruption that tech can provide. So, the team was set up, we've grown since then, and we really sit alongside the clients. And I think what the clients really like about us is we're very pragmatic, very hands-on, we've got lots of experience, whether it's from a CFO, a CIO, CTO perspective. Many of us have delivered ERP change from the technology perspective from the vendors. So, we can really sit alongside the clients and bring all that experience to bear to help them through the technology journey and the challenges that lie ahead. 

Hannah Munro: 4:25 

And it's, obviously, for those of you that may remember, we recently recorded an episode with Mark as well. And that was one of the interesting things, as I think both he and I are aligned, is that very often clients aren't necessarily getting the best out of their existing technology and can sometimes get distracted with the shiny new toy. Don't be wrong. We all love a shiny new toy. And there are definitely times where it's the way to go. But it was quite interesting actually having that conversation. And which I guess leads me into some of the research. So, tell us a bit about the research, you know, sort of the brief for the research, what are you trying to achieve? And then we'll talk a little bit about sort of what are the results that came out of it? 

Chris Beeley: 5:07 

Yeah, sure. I mean, the role of the CFO is, I think, increasing in complexity. It's always, you know, being critical to be the stewards, you know, drive value, create value for the stakeholders, shareholders, investors, employees. Obviously, the role extends into driving insight, performance reporting, but there's increasing complexity around UK SOX compliance, which is coming, ESG reporting, which is coming, and that is going to fall mainly, not always, but in the hands of the CFO and their team because performance reporting, stakeholder reporting is driven through their team. And given that, as I mentioned, there's lots of new tech around and people now getting back to a more normal work life or work balance on the back of the pandemic, we thought it was a good opportunity to test the temperature of how automation and intelligent automation is working and is being adopted across finance. So, that was the main driver behind the survey. We conducted about 20 interviews with CFOs, senior finance execs, transformation directors, and across a variety of organizations. Around about 500 million FTSE 250 equivalents, some in the public sector, but also a few larger FTSE 100 companies, those that have got a global scale and have created global business services at scale over the past five, six, 10 years or so, So, a real variety of organizations that we reached out to. 

Hannah Munro: 6:54 

And when you were looking at the results, was there anything that surprised you in what you found? 

Chris Beeley: 7:01 

I think the main surprise was, well, I think there were two actually. One, most of the automation that's been done today has been tactical. And by that, I mean, it's been to address a pain point in finance, a process issue. And many organizations started their automation journey round about three years ago. 2018 seemed to be the moment when automation started to grow. to take hold, not hold, but change it in finance. So, that was one surprise to a degree. I think the second one is over half of the organizations have got an impending ERP change, either because their end of life or the fact that their business has changed and they're grappling with Where does automation fit in? Where does a Bolton application fit in against the backdrop of, we are changing our technology platform already, or we need to do that over the next two, three years or so, that was a real theme that came out of it, which I think surprised me. 

Hannah Munro: 8:19 

Yeah, especially given the current environment. And I guess that then opens the question about the strategy that people are taking in terms of ERP. Because I don't know about what you'll see, but we're seeing sort of two options. It's almost like that best of breed piece where there's a lot of integration and choosing the best tool for the job versus the, you know, the full ERP and like a more of an all-in-one solution with the, you know, occasional piece bolted onto the side. So, that, you know, it's quite interesting that even given the current environment that people are looking to shift and to invest more, I guess, in their automation? 

Chris Beeley: 8:57 

Well, I think automation has got a place on that journey around ERP. One client that we spoke to should have now, two or three days ago, cut over to Oracle Fusion. And for them, automation was parked until they were in their sort of settle down or protect phase. And then the question for them is, they're a billion pound plus size organization. The question for them is, as they settle down with their new system and processes in particular, where does process mining fit in? So, they were on that stage of the journey. For others who have got the ERP change ahead of them, I think ER automation can in many ways prolong the life of existing technology. So, I don't think it's an easy decision. Clients almost need to stick or twist. And automation has its place. It's not the panacea. It can prolong the life. And it certainly can have a significant role in driving standardization and releasing some of those pain points. ahead of an ERP change. And the return on investment can be relatively quick, rapid. And if an ERP change is going to take two or three years, there's still a financial payback potential for tweaking the processes, driving consistency, getting standardization, and just doing things better. 

Hannah Munro: 10:38 

Yeah, because I think that's one of the pieces that people underestimate when they're shifting into a new system is actually some of the issues with their... processes are not system led you know they're not technology led I should be very clear on that so, actually it's been driven by the wider organisation that are asking finance to clear up after some of the bad processes they've got in place so, I guess that's where finance automation can play a part in that if you can get hold of those earlier issues and like you say standardise and clean up then you're in a much better position no matter what system that you've got 

Chris Beeley: 11:11 

I completely agree and In starting the automation journey, I think a lesson that many of those that have succeeded with a scale of automation, they start small, they create a bunch of use cases and sift those, categorize those, and then really work with the operational business and finance to smooth out that process, lean the process. Let's improve it first before we then jump to a technology solution. So, that's certainly a lesson that's come out. Start small. But I think that the other, there's a number of drivers of automation for me. And many CFOs that we interviewed, again, started because of a need to drive out cost and need to become more efficient. And I think... 65% of those said cost efficiency is the main driver of where they got to with automation. But I think there are more. There's more than that. Driving better data quality has to be a real opportunity for automation. Driving better governance and control. With UK SOX, as I mentioned before, coming in, in a couple of years’ time, there's going to be a greater focus on those processes and therefore standardization and automation have to be levers that CFOs should pull to ensure compliance. And I think there are two others which some did mention, and some were very proud of their changes and the benefits that have been realized here. One is the happier staff. So, many finance folk are processing paper, managing on Excel, I might come back to that in a minute. And they're working at a level far beneath their level of experience and haven't got the time nor the mental capacity, because of that lack of time, to add real value and real insight. So, I think there's a real driver for happier finance folk. And the last one is around driving a better customer experience. And 18% of the CFOs that we interviewed, you know, classified customer experience as one of the key criteria, again, around automation. For me, that's a massive gap. But those that have thought about it have driven their NPS score up significantly. There's one organization that we interviewed, engaged with, who I've known for a number of years, which is a large outsource provider of finance and accounting into the public sector. And six years ago, their net promoter score was minus 55. It's now plus 29. And automation has been at the heart of that transformation. A real, absolute fundamental driver of that change in customer experience. And that organization wouldn't exist if they didn't deliver a great customer experience. So, I think automation, yes, start small, think big, but don't just think about cost. 

Hannah Munro: 14:25 

And it's quite interesting that you talk about that shift on the latest Deloitte CFO survey. what that means to work-life balance and what that means to the role of finance nowadays. It's interesting to talk about that concept of a happier workforce, maybe the option to do more flexible hours and to offer a different kind of role that is more exciting, more innovative and more creative. We don't normally associate creativity with finance, but like you say, that automation can open up that door and that journey to do more of the value-add piece. rather than the day-to-day. 

Chris Beeley: 15:26 

I completely agree. And it was one of the big four, and I was obviously at KPMG for 20 plus years, which said a number of years ago that automation would be the meteorite that would kill finance. Well, the story of finance being dead is not happening. But there is a massive transformation ahead, and it should unleash the talent in finance to do, as you say, provide much more strategic support. In my view, automation should drive all the basic transaction processing into the ledgers. Automation should drive through predictive analytics and machine learning, et cetera, all of the production of the insight. But it's then, what's the impact on the finance community? And it could be significant. But CFOs just need to drive and have a plan for talent in finance on the back of what is inevitable around automation change. The war for talent is real. It's happening now. And those organizations that don't invest in technology, don't invest in their people, will lose some of that talent to other places that do. 

Hannah Munro: 16:44 

And you know what, that's a really interesting piece, because if I was in a finance role and looking at two different organizations, and I had one that was on that transformation journey that would allow me to get involved in strategy, allow me to do more of the business partners, partnering focus, versus somebody that hasn't got any plans to develop the technology that isn't going to allow me to develop my skills in terms of technology implementation. I don't know about you, but I know which one I would choose. So, that's an interesting conundrum, isn’t. 

Chris Beeley: 17:17 

it? It is, absolutely. And the future workforce in finance will become much more diverse. It will be people. It will be automations, bots. It will be machine learning algorithms. Again, so, that finance ecosystem is going to be very, very different in the future. And technology is all around us. We're all used to the mobile phone and the Amazon-like experience, et cetera, of buying, et cetera. So, I just think You know, in finance, CFOs and leaders just must embrace the technology that's coming or be left behind. That's very, very clear. 

Hannah Munro: 17:53 

Yeah, so, we talk about sort of the war on talent. So, you know, technology and certainly implementations can be a great way to bring new talent into a team. But what would you say for those CFOs that are looking to implement technology, or perhaps they're looking at the team and wondering what skills their existing team might need to support that finance automation? You know, what sort of skills, did your research bring forward any challenges around that? 

Unknown: 18:22 

Yeah. 

Chris Beeley: 18:22 

So, the ones that have really progressed to a level of scale and who started, again, three, four, five years ago, they were already, I think, set up for success in many ways. They'd already created these global centres of excellence. They'd already got global process owners in place. You can still, as a UK-based FTSE 250, 500 million circuit turnover organization, still put a lot of onus and responsibility into really great process leaders. So, that starting point, having someone on point who understands the tech, probably has got a bit of curiosity about the tech, but is on point to drive process excellence, whether it's by using a lean principle, whether it's by using a Bolton application, whether it's by using an automation, I think having that that foundation in place was a real lesson that came out of those that succeeded in driving a scale. And by having that foundation of shared services, of process excellence, of lean, et cetera, there's already the DNA in finance in many ways. So, those that are perhaps struggling, maybe a bit smaller in scale, but need to drive that DNA, that level of you know, curiosity, inquisitiveness. Can we do things better? Why are we doing it this way? Why have we not changed the way that we produce our monthly accounts? Why is it still taking us three weeks to close the month end? And drive that curiosity. This to me is not about bots replacing human bots. This is about driving a better service and using technology wisely. 

Hannah Munro: 20:10 

Because there is a danger when people are looking at technology projects and, you know, as a, you know, consultant for 10 years, I think why is like the major word in my vocabulary. But actually, one of the interesting pieces I always find is how willing finance people are to accept what they're given versus challenging where things are going. So,, you know, rather than using software as a tool to automate what is there existing, actually taking it as an opportunity to rethink processes and to, you know, redesign the whole, you know, and understand why you have to work in that way in the first place. And I guess that's where you're going, isn't it? That curiosity as to why are we doing it that way? 

Chris Beeley: 20:52 

Yeah. And don't be afraid to ask the questions um and I think one of the roles of the CFO the CFO is a leader of a sometimes large diverse team of people in often multiple locations particularly on the back of the last 18 months but they have to lead and they've got to drive and you know having a having a vision and we've all you know supported clients with creating vision strategies for finance and You know, the talent and whether that's in finance or the finance or literacy outside finance for me is absolutely critical. Technology works, processes work only if the people work within the parameters, et cetera. But don't be afraid to challenge those parameters. And I just think that, you know, CFOs, leaders have to take their finance teams on the journey. Let's create the vision. Where do we want to get to? Why do we think we need to be different? What's it like in accounts payable, in the auditor cash accounts receivable processes where you've got the day-to-day customer interaction? What are the customers saying? What are the suppliers saying about how we work with them end-to-end through the supply chains? Just harnessing all that capability and that knowledge can hopefully drive a case for change and bring the finance team along with that. Doing it to them is not the right answer. 

Hannah Munro: 22:17 

No, and it's quite interesting, isn't it, how people underestimate clarity of vision as part of any transformation project. And, you know, if you speak to anyone, like if you look at any of the research that cotters any of the big change methodologies, they cite it. But it's very rare that people actually, you know, really dig down into what that vision means. I think both for the organisation and the team. So, in your opinion, so, I love this topic around vision. So, what are the hallmarks of a good finance or transformation vision? You know, how do you know you've really articulated it well? 

Chris Beeley: 22:56 

That's a really tough question. 

Hannah Munro: 22:59 

I do occasionally ask them to be fair. No, no, no, not saying the 

Chris Beeley: 23:01 

others aren't. I think the trick is to, and I'm not saying this because I'm on the outside looking into clients. I think the trick is to get the voice of the customer in. So, many times, you know, finance thinks X about itself. You talk to the customers, and they've got a very different perception. And therefore, there is a gap, perception gap. When you play that back to the finance leadership team, often they're surprised. Nicely surprised sometimes, but surprised. So, I think that's something that is a fundamental backdrop. Finance is there to provide a service, to provide support, advice, insight. And therefore, let's just talk to the customers of the team. 

Hannah Munro: 24:20 

things there is actually what we define as a customer. So, are you talking about business customers or are you seeing the wider organization as a customer of finance as well? 

Chris Beeley: 24:29 

I think both. You can't do it without. And I've, again, over my years, particularly with the Big Four, have engaged with stakeholders of finance outside of the organization to get their candid views of how finance stewardship often works and how finance value is created from their lenses, their perspectives. So, that's a really important aspect, I think, behind any– you know, finance is there to provide a service. It's got to be there for a purpose. Having that clarity about, you know, what are the drivers, et cetera, behind that service quality from an excellent perspective is really, really important. I think the other thing is in any finance vision strategy, there's multiple lenses, levers, et cetera, to pull. Automation technology obviously are up there right now. You know, think big, but start small. Don't be prepared or be prepared to fail sometimes in making change stick. And that's again where, again, some of the lessons from those we interviewed on the survey have come through. Start small, don't prepare to fail, but have that big picture. Have that vision. One said, you know, we've got a vision to create a workforce of 200 bots within five years. I mean, that's an amazing scale. They're not there yet. They're on the journey, and they've got about halfway to go. But their challenge now is with, again, with the potential of a bot for every person, how do they drive and secure the investment, particularly as the citizen developer is coming up and the democratization of automation is on the agenda? What does that mean for control and governance? I think automation could be the next thing, biggest thing since the spreadsheet to finance. Well, we're now at ungovernable spreadsheets are, and there's a risk that, again, automation could get to that same extent unless it's properly governed, properly managed, properly changed, managed, et cetera, by a centre of excellence in the centre. 

Hannah Munro: 26:46 

And I do think that is an interesting piece, isn't it? 

Unknown: 26:50 

Because 

Hannah Munro: 26:51 

The amount of customers who are living with a mountain of spreadsheets that we speak to. And I actually, when we implement now, we've got to a point where we do Excel audits because it's gotten that bad. That people, we're speaking to people that are like, and it's quite, it's actually, I find it quite amusing. You have to get past the fact that, you know, people are living in spreadsheets and every time say, well, how are you doing that? And the answer is, it's a spreadsheet or whatever. Where are you storing that data? Oh, in a spreadsheet. And then there's so, much danger, isn't there, around that? You know, if we think about, like you say, the governance, the control, the duplication, there are so, many issues. But it's having the ability to move people away from that. And like you say, automation is to the current age what Excel spreadsheets were to them 10 years ago. 

Chris Beeley: 27:44 

I think there is– well, I think it's coming. I think it's inevitable. But I think the risk is absolutely real. And to use another example, and I'm going back 10 years plus in my experience, we were doing a finance vision and strategy engagement for FTSE 100 company. I won't reveal the sector. I mean, they've diverged and split since then. So, you won't recognize it today. But then we asked the IT team, to count up the number of live spreadsheets that were in use in finance. And the finance team was only 45 people, very asset rich organization. And there were a quarter of a million live spreadsheets in use. And that was just scary. Now, I don't know any other organization today that's got that personally, but I think there are many that have still got a significant dependency on Excel, particularly in the reporting side. And that's why I think for me, automation, on the process to get the transactions into the ERP system is inevitable, touchless, seamless, always on. And then the ability to report, again, using clever analytics capability out of that common data set to drive decision-making support has to be the next big challenge. And just the spreadsheets have its place, but it's frightening to think that that organization have that dependency. 

Hannah Munro: 29:12 

And it certainly for an organization of that size, you know, you would think sometimes the bigger the organization gets, it's actually the more worrying it is that they're relying on spreadsheets. But it's quite interesting that you're saying there about the difference between automation and driver reporting. I think some of it comes down to the fact that it's putting the financial information into context. So, people are not able necessarily in the current system, so, that is changing, to be able to connect the dots in terms of operational data versus financial data. And so, they're so, reliant on storing and using Excel spreadsheets to bring this information together. But the world is changing now. We have 

Ad1: 29:52 

new 

Hannah Munro: 29:52 

data technologies, new analytic capabilities. We're not so, heavily reliant on that sort of historical separation of financial reporting versus operational. 

Chris Beeley: 30:03 

That's right. And again, back to the role of the CFO. And in protecting value, you think about the end-to-end supply chain of a manufacturing organization, for example. There's value at every point in that process. And yet the data is going to be held in different systems. And therefore, as a CFO, how do you corral that data? And organizations are swimming in an ocean of data. It's one of the beliefs that we've got at Embracent. And therefore, trying to capture where the data is, trying to understand what are the key questions that need to be answered by the CFO, by the chief exec, by the C-suite, etc. And bringing those two together, almost this Venn diagram is really, really important. And you're right, Excel is a way that many organizations traditionally do it and still do it. But there has to be a different way. 

Hannah Munro: 31:01 

There has to be. There are so, many issues. So, back to your research, because obviously there's huge amounts that have come out of this. What were some of the other challenges and or learnings that you found in your research when speaking to these CFOs? 

Chris Beeley: 31:15 

So, I've talked about the sickle twist, automation, VERP, et cetera, and where automation has got its place. We asked the question... about do you improve the process first before automating it using lean principles? Not many do. Some will automate a process even if it's not optimal. And that again was a bit of a surprise. Our advice would be, it wouldn't take much to understand and lean, remove the waste and then automate to improve what is still done by human intervention. So, lean principles for me is a gap that can be done better. Many organizations, not surprisingly, and we've done this with our own, we keep a tally of all the automations that we support our clients with and about 40%, 40, 45% of those that we've done have been all around purchase to pay, which again, not surprised. And that's backed up by the research. many organizations start in the purchase to pay. OCR typically is an easy way to start, and they learn and get confidence in that point and grow from there. So, that's another lesson that certainly came out. But I think having this real, I mentioned before, this real curiosity and having, you know, asking someone to step up if they've not done so, already to really drive it. The CFO can't do it They need a team around them. So, having a really strong leader to drive it forward, to engage with the finance community, to engage with third parties who have done it before, to engage with the software vendors, and to create the use cases, create the criteria by which opportunities could be assessed against, to think about the six benefits or drivers of change that I ran through earlier on. I think is a real lesson and a real opportunity for many that are perhaps less mature in this, but need to get more mature because, again, automation is inevitable. 

Hannah Munro: 33:31 

Absolutely. And I'd be interested to understand how many teams actually have somebody that is purely focused on process automation. Let's say a large percentage of their working time is focused on that piece. And also, I guess we've then got to think about the skills that that person needs to have in terms of their capabilities. And what are your thoughts on that? 

Chris Beeley: 33:56 

I think... Again, those larger organizations who have got the global process ownership in place, as I mentioned before, they're set up for success. They've already got that capability, and those process owners would no doubt have driven process improvements using a variety of different tools and technologies over the years. I think some of the smaller ones, around the 100 to 200 million turnover, many of them have got a shared service capability already established. One organization that we've been working with has recently integrated their back-office finance and technology support functions following acquisition a couple of years ago. And they've now got a shared service capability around accounts receivable, accounts payable, before they were split into different teams and different locations. still different locations, but one team now. And that's given them an ability to really think about and drive automation ahead. To drive some of the changes, they had to take headcount out of the business, but automation was the lever they had to pull to enable the workforce that was left to continue working with the scale. And particularly as now their business comes back on the back of the of the pandemic, which is now really happening at scale, that the team is now coming forward with, again, automation ideas because they recognize that automation is succeeding. It's early days still, but it is delivering benefits, improving their work balance, and they recognize there's more that can be done. They're now starting with an automation centre of excellence, which is finance function, operations functions, IT function together, and their head of shared services, who's new to the business in the past three months or so, will be at the heart of that. So, even the smaller organizations, I still think can drive change positively and put automation at the heart, because ultimately transactions still need to be processed, reports still need to be produced, and as we said before, they can't afford to get left behind. 

Hannah Munro: 36:25 

It's like that snowball running down the hill, isn't it? So, you do, like you say, start small, create space. And I talk with a lot of our clients about this, create space for change, because trying to do change while you're in the midst of auditor year ends and everything's going on around you, but allocate, like you say, pull that resource out, create space and the ability to then for the rest of the team to deliver so, that our person can continue to make those changes. 

Chris Beeley: 36:52 

That's right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so, many, as I mentioned before, so, many competing forces and pressures on the CFO and the finance leadership team. But there can be some real quick wins here that can release capacity, not expensive to deploy, good return on investment, but really, really change the dial on that talent and unleash the talent. 

Hannah Munro: 37:22 

And get the talent excited as well because, you know, let's be honest, right? We love change. Well, certainly I do. I get super excited about the improvements that we see with clients. And what's lovely is when you see, and you must see this all the time, your teams that you're working with, when they start to get that buzz around the impact that they're making, both, like you say, on customers, on wider business, that's almost a momentum piece in itself, isn't it? 

Chris Beeley: 37:51 

It is. And then you're right, the snowball effect is happening. And with that organization, as I mentioned, that's now integrated, they've got a long list of, again, pain points that potentially can be automated, both in finance and in operations. And automation is one of the strategic levers that before we started the work, they wanted to pull this year to, again, drive efficiency, customer experience. and support their financial challenges, which again was severe on the back of the pandemic. I think that the hardest area where we saw less maturity, maybe it's because the organizations that we interviewed, I don't know, was around the artificial intelligence, the machine learning. Some are trailed early days, again, quite big organizations in some cases. One, for example, had trailed it in cash forecasting, and they expected about 95% plus forecast accuracy. When they put it in and test the benefits, it was 80%, and that just wasn't good enough for them. Others have, on revenue forecasting, driven 98% accuracy. So, there are some good use cases out there, but the widespread use of AI and machine learning in finance, in our experience, isn't there yet. There's more to come. 

Hannah Munro: 39:23 

Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes down to the technology, I guess, that you're using and the shared data sets that you're building the learnings from, I think is the interesting bit about finance. And like you say, there's probably certain use cases that are less business specific where it really comes into play. 

Chris Beeley: 39:41 

Yeah, that's right. And often, you know, the experience that I've seen and observed and had feedback from clients through the survey recently is they have bolted on specific AI tools on top of ERP again. Let's drive the transaction processing, drive the data quality into the ERP, and then probably use some sort of capability that sits on top to drive out the insight, to drive out that predictive analytics support for the business. 

Hannah Munro: 40:16 

And then that goes back to our original strategy, isn't it? One of the questions we talked about, thinking about your overall strategy, are you going for a best of breed where you're plugging different elements in? Are you going for a full ERP where everything is included? And then it's part of that. I guess that technology journey is quite exciting to hear where people are going with it. 

Chris Beeley: 40:40 

Yeah, as I said before, automation certainly has its place. Intelligent automation and all its various component parts has a place in the future for me without any question. But finance for me in the future, if you think ahead to 2030, 2035, I think there are 10 descriptions or characteristics of finance of that future. This is the Chris Bealey version, not the big four version that I came from. And lean, touchless, always on, curious, autonomous, virtual, quick, customer-focused, predictive, and insightful. Now, wouldn't that be a great place for finance talent to flourish and to want to develop their careers in? Those 10 characteristics for me are really, really important for the future of finance. 

Hannah Munro: 41:35 

I think we need another podcast to drill into those and discover how we get there, to be honest, Chris. So, we are rapidly running out of time on this session. So, final thoughts for those that are... On this transformation journey, considering perhaps a finance automation project or leaning into it as part of their strategy, what are the top tips that they can take away from the survey that you've done? And what do they need to think about before they embark on that journey? 

Chris Beeley: 42:11 

So, there are a number of lessons learned that have come out of this. I've probably mentioned these as we've discussed the topic. set a vision, be bold, be brave, engage, engage your, your, your staff in finance, your customers, whether they are internal or external, be prepared to fail. You know, some of these automations, you know, you've got to create a sense of, of change. And it may be that in two years’ time, some of the investment may be thrown away if you're then moving to ERP at that point in time. Um, but bring your, bring your team along with you. Um, there’s no point in doing this to them. It's not about replacing human bots with automated robots. That's not what this is about. This is about driving better quality. It's about driving better compliance and control and automating and standardizing. It is about releasing the talent, as we've discussed during the session. And if talent's not released, they would release themselves. So, really strong lessons. Top tips. Download the survey from the website, obviously. Have a read. 

Hannah Munro: 43:25 

Obviously. 

Chris Beeley: 43:26 

Obviously. I've got to say that. 

Hannah Munro: 43:27 

And for those that are listening, we will put a link to the research that you can jump on and have a look at yourself. 

Chris Beeley: 43:35 

So, obviously, first point of call, read the survey. Absolutely. Yeah, without any question. And it's meant to be an easy read. and hopefully is thought-provoking, has got some real insight from those that have embarked upon the journey and progressed along the maturity of automation. But automation is not for everyone in terms of being the answer, but it can certainly support the transformation, can certainly support a better user and customer experience with that question. 

Hannah Munro: 44:10 

Yeah, and I think that's a lovely thought to think on it, that automation is a tool to take you on the journey. It's a way of getting you to where you want to be. And, you know, there are some amazing new cases about it. And create, I love the concept, you know, love that concept of talking about building a better role for finance, a more exciting one that gets people, you know, people get excited about working in finance. 

Chris Beeley: 44:37 

Absolutely right. Yep. 

Hannah Munro: 44:39 

Wonderful. Well, on that note, we're going to finish for today. So, thank you so, much, Chris. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. And yes, just a reminder for those that are interested, I will post a link to both Chris's profile and also a link to the survey. So, if you're interested and want to learn more about how finance automation is changing the role of finance and some top tips on how to make the most of it, then please do pop on there and download that report. So, thank you, Chris. 

Chris Beeley: 45:08 

Thank you, Hannah. Been a pleasure. Thank you very much.